House Could Delay Until 2010

[CHUMPS FROM OXFORD]

Chain of mistakes by IDF.

"Ten official U.S. investigations and three official Israeli investigations have all concluded that the attack was a tragic mistake or that there is no evidence to establish that it was not a tragic mistake. Seven U. S. Presidents, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Regan, Bush, and Clinton have all accepted the conclusion that the attack was a tragic mistake. Still, more than two dozen conspiracy theories..., are based on false or erroneous premises, and have been circulating for years."

 

[Dave020]

The Montana Rep is pushing for a slowdown as well

 

[Dave020]

Seriously, I Was Just Trying To Kill Off This Thread Since It Has Strayed So Far From The Orignal Post By John.

Can We Please Try To Keep Threads On Track Without Namecalling And Policital Bs?

It's An Insurance Forum. Can We Just Talk About Insurance?

 

[CHUMPS FROM OXFORD]

Dave...I respect your opinion about the Liberty so I don't want to start something with no end in sight. You know you're right. I know I'm right (and by the way...a close family member of mine was flying for the IDF that day!).

We won't convince each other or anybody else and that's OK. I can cite a thousand sources that back up my assertion. So can you.


. No need to waste Forum space.

 

[Dave020]

Dave...I respect your opinion about the Liberty so I don't want to start something with no end in sight. You know you're right. I know I'm right (and by the way...a close family member of mine was flying for the IDF that day!).

We won't convince each other or anybody else and that's OK. I can cite a thousand sources that back up my assertion. So can you.


. No need to waste Forum space.

Agreed. Only brought it up to try and kill the thread. What does it take to kill these riduculous threads that get out of hand on this forum? It serves no purpose.

 

[CHUMPS FROM OXFORD]

Maybe we can talk about John Mackey. That might take care of it.

 

[Winter_123]

Obama seeks out skeptics at Montana town hall - CNN.com

When the Dems can't even decide on the language in the House it gives everyone a clue on just how long this entire process is going to take.

I was almost certain that some form of legislation would be signed this year. Now I'm back on the fence again. This entire thing could get killed in the Senate. Likely not but we'll see.

We will see some form of legislation this year but it will just be 100,000 foot high language. The dems know that this is Obama's waterloo and that he has committed to the country to give them a bill this year, so Congress is going to toss him a bone. On the other hand, we are a long, long, long way away from seeing any type of final substantive bill.

Bottom line: I am recycling my thoughts from last spring because the facts have not changed. Obama will end out with some type of bill this year (which will be closer to a resolution since it will leave so much unfinished work) that establishes a set of principles or benchmarks that dems agree need to be incorporated into health reform. It could even lapse over into next year but the point is the same. It will be a 100,000 foot level thing.

Look for the small signs along with the big ones that are already in our face, or should I say in Obama's face. Yesterday Bill Clinton said about health care reform (and he would know) "that sometimes you need to take less than a full loaf." He knows that Hillary would not yield an inch the first time around and they lost everything. Something for Obama to think about. However, both Clinton and Obama made the same fatal mistake, they left the effort to someone else. Clinton left it to Hillary and Obama to Congress.

The other thing is that you get into a Clinton "it depends on what the meaning of is is" situation. Everything gets watered down with Barry as we go along and as he has to drop from the general visions down into some actual details. What does "getting a bill passed" actually mean. When we started down this road Obama led us to believe that getting a bill before the end of the year would mean legislation that he could actually sign. Now, we have migrated over to defining it as just the House passing something. Crazy stuff.

The historical timing is right for Obama to get half a loaf even if they screw up but nothing close to what he would have gotten if he had a bill and a plan that he had developed and was leading, instead of using Congress like a playpen and seizing on what seems to fly with the public and distancing himself from what does not. He is showing fourth rate leadership and fourth rate communication with the public. The public does not understand it so he is having his people portray the public as an ignorant mob. Good luck with that.

Some folks here are still talking about single payer and opposing that. Single payer isnt even remotely on the table. Public option is still halfway on the table but that is not going to fly. That's the good news. The bad news is Obama will regulate the bejesus out of whatever system we do have so it will end out walking and talking like a public option in the short and long term.

Change you can believe in.

 

[Mac1958]

Seriously, I Was Just Trying To Kill Off This Thread Since It Has Strayed So Far From The Orignal Post By John.

Can We Please Try To Keep Threads On Track Without Namecalling And Policital Bs?

It's An Insurance Forum. Can We Just Talk About Insurance?

______________________

Amen, Dave.

I visited this thread because of its title, and I see that one person (who is so desperate for attention that negative attention is okay) has turned another thread into an insult-fest.

This is my last post on this topic. In the future I'll only respond to this person if he offers civil, mature input. I'd like to respectfully suggest that everyone else considers doing the same thing.

Time to bring things up a notch or two.

=========================================

Now, back to the topic.

Seems to me that the GOP is wasting an incredible opportunity here.

ObamaCare, with its massive increase in bureaucracy and questionable individual elements, is already teetering like a boxer who's taken a few too many punches.

The GOP should have, about a month or two ago, come out with their own clear plan as an alternative. The frustrating thing is, they have offered several excellent cost-cutting ideas (a few that are even in line with the Democrats), but they've never bothered to put them into one simple format. Ideas such as:

Tort Reform
National medical record-keeping
Deductibility of individual health plans
National individual health plans
Mandatory coverage
Guaranteed issue
Subsidized medical education
Portability

The fact that it would include Democrat ideas would be an excellent show of bi-partisanship. Wrap it up in a package, give it a soft, catchy name, print it out and start offering it.

Where is the Republican leadership on this? They have a golden opportunity and they're letting it slip away.

Here's the key: The answers to our health care problems are out there, they don't require a massive bureaucratic increase, we all know what they are. The problem is that they exist on both ends of the political spectrum, and neither side is willing to give in (as usual).

This problem is too large for simplistic partisanship, it's too crucial for the current "my way or the highway" approach. We need real leadership and cooperation from both parties.

...

 

[Dave020]

I fear that we are going to see a "macrocosm" of what happened in California in the last few years.

Arnold worked very hard with top democrats to craft a healthcare bill for California and it had bipartisan support. When it came time to vote on it, it was killed by the extremists on both sides because it was not what they wanted (leave it alone versus single payor).

Sadly, I believe that 80% of our country are middlers, taking the best ideas from both sides. The 20% extremists have just enough clout in voting to kill any ideas (good or bad) that do not fit their agenda.

 

[Winter_123]

I fear that we are going to see a "macrocosm" of what happened in California in the last few years.

Arnold worked very hard with top democrats to craft a healthcare bill for California and it had bipartisan support. When it came time to vote on it, it was killed by the extremists on both sides because it was not what they wanted (leave it alone versus single payor).

Sadly, I believe that 80% of our country are middlers, taking the best ideas from both sides. The 20% extremists have just enough clout in voting to kill any ideas (good or bad) that do not fit their agenda.

All of those ponts are valid. Nevetheless the dems own both houses and the White House. If they can't get a bill to fly then that is just too bad. They have enough dems to overcome any of their perceived bad players such as republicans, insurance companies, AMA etc. Some dems don't buy into their plan? Not my fault. Obama was elected by getting independents to go along with him. All the polls show that he has lost the independents now. Again, not my fault. Should have been a fairly simple task for your basic messiah.

It is like Al Ozone Gore whining about losing the election by 400 hundred votes or whatever and getting screwed by the Supreme Court. Ahh....okay......some truth to that but he had everything going for him. Eight years of visibility as VP at a time when the economy was booming. Shame on him for getting into a position where 400 hundred votes mattered. Perhaps it was because people did not want him. Similarly, shame on Obama for getting into a position where his reofrm plan is in trouble. He has enough dems on his side so that all he has to do is come up something reasonable instead of finding demons. Oh, you screwed up the stimulus plan? George Bush, inherited, blah, blah. Tell the town halls that you are using as a subsitute for public hearings. Tell them about George Bush and health care. Let me know how it works.

Personally I think this has become less about health care in the last few days and more about the stimulus and public debt of which a botched health care cost projection would sink the country and we do know that all health care program projections are usually about an eight or a tenth of true cost in the long run, minimum. The commie alert has gone off in the heartland bigtime. Maybe that is unfair, I dont think so, but if it is then it should be a small taskf for the greatest communicator on earth to straighten it out. That is , after he is done explaining health reform to the folks which he does when he is not explaining why he called the Cambridge PD stupid.

Also, you notice a little shift now where, "bipartisan" is coming to mean iit is bipartisan f the final vote has any republicans voting for it versus republican support. In other words, just one repubilcan makes it bipartisan. Okay, fine. I say let em run it without republican support by using the reconciliation process as they threaten. Go for it baby. Makes for a cleaner playing field in the next congressional elections and for the Senators who are up for re-election (can you sing Bye-Bye Miss American Pie, Arlen?)