LTC with Mass Mutual

[2insureyou]

So,let me understand this:
As a MM or NWM agent, I tell a prospect.....

"Yes, my LTC premiums are substantially higher than every other company out there, BUT, in 10 years or so, we will (we MAY) start to pay dividends on your policy, that will (that MAY) lower your premium".

And............ do I say that with a straight face?

I speak with a straight face all the time when I show Northwestern Mutual's product...

They don't wait 10 years to pay a dividend. I have policyowners who, after three years are having their premiums reduced through dividends.

And that's not a knock against Mass and their 10 year period. At least they've structured themselves with stable, non-gimmicky products that are built to pay claims and make good on promises, unlike the multitude of companies that have raised rates, not to mention the ones that have dropped out altogether (Met, Guardian, etc...)

Do you realize there are only really about 8 major carriers on traditional ltc plans left? I realize there are some great linked UL or annuity plans out there, but in the traditional market, there are only 8 real players. NM, Mass, and NYL are the only true mutuals in that list. (Mutual of Omaha is on the list, but they do so much of their biz through stock held subsidiaries that I don't count them as a true mutual)

And of those three true mutuals, non of them have raised rates. None of them are showing signs of needing to raise rates.

Do they cost more? You betcha they do, but having been down the road of selling another carrier like JH and Genworth to my clients because they balked at NM's price, only to now have to go back and tell them their rates are going up, you'd better believe I push the NM product a whole lot harder.

And, if I didn't have access to NML's product, you can bet your bottom dollar Mass would be my first choice.NYL also has a nice linked benefit plan that is open to brokers that I've shown clients before.

Rant over.

 

[Arthur Rudnick]

You make a strong case and you believe in your company & product, which is a good thing.

However, let's not lose sight of the fact that you're a captive agent. It might be nice to have all 8 of those carriers in your pocket so you can offer a choice to your clients and not present just one product.

But that conversation has been going on since the begining of time.

 

[VolAgent]

I remember Mass's big thing is that dividends would kick in around retirement time (age 65 or 10 years, whichever is later Thanks NADM). So your premium would be going down right when you needed it most.

I guess you could also say, you won't be getting rate increases with them right as you can least afford it as you might with other carriers.

And for full disclosure. I was, but have not been a Mass agent in sometime, and I never sold their LTC.

 

[2insureyou]

You make a strong case and you believe in your company & product, which is a good thing.

However, let's not lose sight of the fact that you're a captive agent. It might be nice to have all 8 of those carriers in your pocket so you can offer a choice to your clients and not present just one product.

But that conversation has been going on since the begining of time.

Maybe you missed the part where I said I've sold Hancock, Genworth, Pru, Met, Mass, and Mut of Omaha's policies... Or maybe I didn't say it.

My contract with Northwestern, while captive, also allows me to broker business to other companies. I "sell away" all the time when it is truly in my clients best interest. It's unique, yes, but that's the way they do things around here.

There are great companies besides Northwestern, but having their arrow in my quiver, and everyone else's arrow, for that matter, makes me pretty much bullet-proof from a product competition standpoint.... I can only lose on relationship, because I can offer whatever the guy down the street is sellin'

I have no doubt you do great work for your clients, but if I were strictly brokerage, as I think you might be based on your comments, I would really steer towards companies like Mass Mutual, because of their stability. They are truly a great company.

 

[Mr_Ed]

Maybe you missed the part where I said I've sold Hancock, Genworth, Pru, Met, Mass, and Mut of Omaha's policies... Or maybe I didn't say it.

My contract with Northwestern, while captive, also allows me to broker business to other companies. I "sell away" all the time when it is truly in my clients best interest. It's unique, yes, but that's the way they do things around here.

There are great companies besides Northwestern, but having their arrow in my quiver, and everyone else's arrow, for that matter, makes me pretty much bullet-proof from a product competition standpoint.... I can only lose on relationship, because I can offer whatever the guy down the street is sellin'

I have no doubt you do great work for your clients, but if I were strictly brokerage, as I think you might be based on your comments, I would really steer towards companies like Mass Mutual, because of their stability. They are truly a great company.

I find statements like that fascinating.

 

[2insureyou]

I find statements like that fascinating.

Can you give me a legitimate reason as to why you find that fascinating? And I mean a legitimate one...

 

[Mr_Ed]

Can you give me a legitimate reason as to why you find that fascinating? And I mean a legitimate one...

I find it fascinating because I've heard lots of captive agents say that before. I just wonder what objective criteria one can use to determine what is in the best interest of the client.

No captive agent has ever been able to give me an objective criteria for determining which policy was "in their client's best interest".

You'll get 5 gold stars if you can answer that question.



nadm

 

[Casper]

How about the theroy that the best policy is the one that is inforce when there is a claim? Policies (LTC, life, annuities) are like cars, all basically do the same thing, but what bells & whistles do you want and what are you willing to pay for. Personally, I bought my car in the summer, heated seats didn't seem so important, come winter, I regretted it, but I still had a car that drove. So if it is MM with possible dividends, Genworth, NWM, they will all pay claims. Look at Penn Treaty, one of the biggest rate increases in the industry, but they pay claims wonderfully.
Sorry, I just spent almost an hour with an agent debating which carrier is best, which is difficult, when I don't think there is a "best."

 

[Arthur Rudnick]

Sorry, I just spent almost an hour with an agent debating which carrier is best, which is difficult, when I don't think there is a "best."

I can't agree with your statement, but I'll say this:
There are no bad LTC carriers on the market, because the bad ones will not last.

One can argue that on the surface, an A++ company is "best" when comparing it with A & B rated carriers.

But, benefits, company, ratings, premiums, rate increase history and in many cases how the carrier responds to a policyholder on claim, will determine which carrier is the best.

 

[2insureyou]

I find it fascinating because I've heard lots of captive agents say that before. I just wonder what objective criteria one can use to determine what is in the best interest of the client.

No captive agent has ever been able to give me an objective criteria for determining which policy was "in their client's best interest".

You'll get 5 gold stars if you can answer that question.



nadm

I don't know that there is a pat answer for the criteria. Certainly premium and financial strength are matters of consideration, but more importantly, I think, is the question of how a particular product fits into an overall portfolio.

It is a case by case basis. I don't know how you can expect a set criteria for that...

As Northwestern Mutual has encouraged, and pushes all reps to take on more of a financial planning role, and demand we do fiduciary level of service to our clients (whether individual rep operates under fiduciary or suitability standards, does not matter in company's eyes... best interest of client comes first). So, when we are looking at a client's investment portfolio, managing trusts, etc... we take all these things into consideration.

I would say probably 75% of the time, NML will get my business. But 1/4 of the time, other companies get my client's insurance business. And no, it's not just due to insurability factors. There are times NML is just not right, no matter how you slice it, for a particular client.

But if they are... I can offer it, and no one else can.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

So if it is MM with possible dividends, Genworth, NWM, they will all pay claims. Look at Penn Treaty, one of the biggest rate increases in the industry, but they pay claims wonderfully.

umm, aren't they (Penn Treaty) in rehabilitation, and possibly up for liquidation?

They may be paying claims, but huge rate increases + financial instability = very unhappy clients.