- 10,329
So which posts of yours do you think do deserve air time?
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Based on the post you quoted, which was directed at my comment, it seemed like you were directing that towards me. If not then I was incorrect.
My Experience with Hometown Quotes
- Thread starter vandiar
- Start date
So which posts of yours do you think do deserve air time?
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Based on the post you quoted, which was directed at my comment, it seemed like you were directing that towards me. If not then I was incorrect.
- 4,132
If it were my guess, Allstate is going after him for taking too many clients with him and doing something like putting it on facebook or something.
Usually if you're low key and gradually move clients, they don't react. When you move a lot of people over and you publicize it, they come after you. Because putting it out there for the public, rubs it in the insurance company's nose and lets other agents know they may be able to do the same.
Allstate is going after Zapp, but what they are really doing is sending the other Allstate agents a message. Not to do the same or think they can get away with taking clients with them. That could be why Allstate declined mediation.
Waaay back when I was with NYL, they had a agent from Utah speak at the new agents conference in NYC. He was #2 in sales with the company that year. He spoke about how he did it, and as I sat there and listened, it just didn't pencil out. Physically impossible for that much small face app production to be done without help. 400 apps a month back then would just be physically impossible for a one person shop.
Turns out, he was using dead people as customers and getting paid annual commissions. He had a banker friend helping him. They had him arrested getting on a plane to a world conference of insurance agents to speak.
While there never was much publicity about it. He got 20 years in prison. NYC didn't really let the public know, but they made damn sure every agent writing business for them knew they had him prosecuted to the max and his 4 kids would be adults before he would breathe free air.
There are things a carrier will let slide, then there are other things that could affect other agents that they will aggressively go after.
Now, before he gets all sensitive, I am not implying zapp broke any laws outside of what may be in the contract he signed. Violating his contract does not mean he's committed an illegal act, but he made have violated terms of his contract.
SCagent was right, carriers are selective in their taking agents to court. It may have more to do with keeping existing agents in line, than what zapp actually amounts to.
Usually if you're low key and gradually move clients, they don't react. When you move a lot of people over and you publicize it, they come after you. Because putting it out there for the public, rubs it in the insurance company's nose and lets other agents know they may be able to do the same.
Allstate is going after Zapp, but what they are really doing is sending the other Allstate agents a message. Not to do the same or think they can get away with taking clients with them. That could be why Allstate declined mediation.
Waaay back when I was with NYL, they had a agent from Utah speak at the new agents conference in NYC. He was #2 in sales with the company that year. He spoke about how he did it, and as I sat there and listened, it just didn't pencil out. Physically impossible for that much small face app production to be done without help. 400 apps a month back then would just be physically impossible for a one person shop.
Turns out, he was using dead people as customers and getting paid annual commissions. He had a banker friend helping him. They had him arrested getting on a plane to a world conference of insurance agents to speak.
While there never was much publicity about it. He got 20 years in prison. NYC didn't really let the public know, but they made damn sure every agent writing business for them knew they had him prosecuted to the max and his 4 kids would be adults before he would breathe free air.
There are things a carrier will let slide, then there are other things that could affect other agents that they will aggressively go after.
Now, before he gets all sensitive, I am not implying zapp broke any laws outside of what may be in the contract he signed. Violating his contract does not mean he's committed an illegal act, but he made have violated terms of his contract.
SCagent was right, carriers are selective in their taking agents to court. It may have more to do with keeping existing agents in line, than what zapp actually amounts to.
So which posts of yours do you think do deserve air time?
None that I can think of, but it seemed like a good opening line.
No worrys Larry. I appreciate that you guys are discussing it. thanks
- 10,329
Similar thing happened in my area with NYL. The guy was new and wrote like 50 policies in 1 months time... all on dead people. He got his advance commissions and when underwriting called to clarify the info on the first app he split town.
Turns out the name he used wasnt even his real name. He stole the identity of another agent in a different part of the state. He forged the paperwork and everything. Then they found out he did the same thing with NWM & Met before he ever scammed NYL. They finally tracked him down and threw his ass in jail.
There are some crazy stories that came out of NYL... lol
- 8,707
Balls, I know mutual underwriting is slow but just why would you risk jail time for a scheme that would be uncovered so quick. And it would have to be relatively small face because every paramed I have had done on me starts with verifying my ID.
- 4,132
Well, that is probably why things are the way they are now....
In my case it was 26 years ago and a lot of the checks and balances weren't introduced yet, because agents hadn't really tried this scam too often.
It was also a time where sales managers looked the other way a lot. I mean do you question high production if you're getting a piece of the action too?
I mean I sat there in NY and listened to this guy speak about his day and how he was able to write so many apps each month (400) and as a new agent who had written some business I started adding up how long it took me back then to process an app to even turn in. It took a while. So we have this guy writing on average 100 life apps a week, driving all over Utah to do it working on the road from 5 am to 7 pm.. so when did he have time to process all those apps? He had no assistant.
Remember this was a time before parameds at 50k face.
What was ironic to me at the time, was I figured out this guy was full of shite during his speech at conference simply because the math and the actual time in the day didn't mesh. It was 3 months later that they snagged him off a plane headed to speak at a world conference. He collected 1.2 million in commissions that year.
During my decade with NYL I saw a lot of things come back to bite the company in the butt. Rarely did it ever make it public. A lot of things that were overlooked then, came back to bite the company. They don't over look them anymore.
The point to this rambling again was to point out sometimes a company goes hard after an agent not for what the agent did, but for what it could encourage other agents to do.
In my case it was 26 years ago and a lot of the checks and balances weren't introduced yet, because agents hadn't really tried this scam too often.
It was also a time where sales managers looked the other way a lot. I mean do you question high production if you're getting a piece of the action too?
I mean I sat there in NY and listened to this guy speak about his day and how he was able to write so many apps each month (400) and as a new agent who had written some business I started adding up how long it took me back then to process an app to even turn in. It took a while. So we have this guy writing on average 100 life apps a week, driving all over Utah to do it working on the road from 5 am to 7 pm.. so when did he have time to process all those apps? He had no assistant.
Remember this was a time before parameds at 50k face.
What was ironic to me at the time, was I figured out this guy was full of shite during his speech at conference simply because the math and the actual time in the day didn't mesh. It was 3 months later that they snagged him off a plane headed to speak at a world conference. He collected 1.2 million in commissions that year.
During my decade with NYL I saw a lot of things come back to bite the company in the butt. Rarely did it ever make it public. A lot of things that were overlooked then, came back to bite the company. They don't over look them anymore.
The point to this rambling again was to point out sometimes a company goes hard after an agent not for what the agent did, but for what it could encourage other agents to do.
- 10,329
Well, that is probably why things are the way they are now....
In my case it was 26 years ago and a lot of the checks and balances weren't introduced yet, because agents hadn't really tried this scam too often.
It was also a time where sales managers looked the other way a lot. I mean do you question high production if you're getting a piece of the action too?
I mean I sat there in NY and listened to this guy speak about his day and how he was able to write so many apps each month (400) and as a new agent who had written some business I started adding up how long it took me back then to process an app to even turn in. It took a while. So we have this guy writing on average 100 life apps a week, driving all over Utah to do it working on the road from 5 am to 7 pm.. so when did he have time to process all those apps? He had no assistant.
Remember this was a time before parameds at 50k face.
What was ironic to me at the time, was I figured out this guy was full of shite during his speech at conference simply because the math and the actual time in the day didn't mesh. It was 3 months later that they snagged him off a plane headed to speak at a world conference. He collected 1.2 million in commissions that year.
During my decade with NYL I saw a lot of things come back to bite the company in the butt. Rarely did it ever make it public. A lot of things that were overlooked then, came back to bite the company. They don't over look them anymore.
The point to this rambling again was to point out sometimes a company goes hard after an agent not for what the agent did, but for what it could encourage other agents to do.
When I worked there the agent could just do a mouth swab for most policies under $100k... and this happened about 5 or 6 years before I worked there... so we are talking about 15 years ago or more. They guy also stole the identity of an agent who was new to the business, so he got TAS (training subsidy) on top of the advance.
- 4,132
We didn't have to do a mouth swab when I started. 100k was blood/urine. Probably the mouth swabs came into to play to prove the person wasn't a dead guy. 
I remember about 6 months after going to conference that we had a "special" office meeting, mandatory attendance, where a rep from home office came in and made sure he went through what happened and he MADE SURE we all understood NYL will prosecute the crap out of you, no matter how many kids you had or what your story was.
I remember about 6 months after going to conference that we had a "special" office meeting, mandatory attendance, where a rep from home office came in and made sure he went through what happened and he MADE SURE we all understood NYL will prosecute the crap out of you, no matter how many kids you had or what your story was.
- 10,329
It is to test for nicotine or drugs. The agent does it themselves and mails it to ExamOne. It might have been lower than $100k, I cant remember the exact threshold now. It was also age based.
