Yeah, good point...except for the fact that it's fair to say a lot more lives were lost by by the knee jerk reaction to go to war, then will be lost by short on intelligence socio-economic actions taken by Obama and Co.....Nonetheless, it's either bail everyone out and build up social programs and take money and incentive from those of us who are capitalists, or focus on free market and let the rich get richer and the poor get poorer...It seems with either situation, our leaders are looking for an answer that will give them the most popularity among us commoners
Obama Signs Bill Expanding Federal Health Care for Kids
- Thread starter Russ
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I was going to comment, and then remembered there was a column that I once read that I thought would do a better job. I have posted the link so that you may read the entire article if you would like.
The "Cruelty" of Capitalism and the Rationale for the Welfare State. The privileged classes of pre-capitalist society hated the market. The individual was freed from subservience and obedience to the nobility, the aristocracy, and the landed interests. And for these privileged groups, the market meant loss of cheap labor, the disappearance of "proper respect" from their inferiors, and the economic uncertainty of changing market-generated circumstances. And for the socialists of the 19th century, capitalism was seen as the source of exploitation and economic insecurity for "the working class," who were dependent for their livelihood upon the apparent whims of the "capitalist class."
The welfare state became the solution to capitalism's supposed cruelty, a solution that created a vast and bloated welfare bureaucracy, made millions perpetual wards of a paternalistic state and drained society of the idea that freedom meant self-responsibility and mutual help through voluntary association.
The ideal and the principle of the market economy was never fulfilled. What is called capitalism today is a distorted, twisted and deformed system of increasingly limited market relationships as well as market processes hampered and repressed by state controls and regulations. And overlaying this entire system are the ideologies of 18th-century mercantilism, 19th-century socialism, and 20th-century welfare statism.
In this perverse development and evolution of "historical capitalism," the institutions necessary for a truly free-market economy have been either undermined or prevented from emerging. And the principles and actual meaning of a free-market economy have become increasingly misunderstood and lost. But it is the principles and the meaning of a free-market economy that must be rediscovered if liberty is to be saved and the burden of historical capitalism is to be overcome.
Historical Capitalism vs. The Free Market
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I do not consider myself common. I was created in the image of almighty GOD; that makes me exceptional..
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If I hadn't spent so much time in the music industry I could have probably finished reading the whole thing AND War and Peace.
Winter, you are exactly correct on your entire post above.
My father works in the intelligence community (can't say where or he would have to kill me) and some things we need to remember
1. Bill Clinton cut the intelligence budget HUGE in 1999. We pulled our spies in from the middle east and our Keyhole Satellites in from being over the middle east so that we could appear more friendly to them. Now we were blind and didn't know where the threats were. Two years later 9/11 happens.
2. All of the intelligence that was used to go to war in Iraq and Afghanistan was the responsibility of George Tenet. He was the man in charge of the CIA, and thus responsible for the intelligence that the CIA acquires abroad. George Tenet was appointed by Bill Clinton and was a hold over into the Bush Administration..So if the information we used to go to war on was faulty, in reality, it falls on the shoulders of Tenet and Clinton. (BTW - I am no Bush fan either)
3. More soldiers died under the 8 years Bill Clintons administration with NO declaration of war that all of the soldiers that have been killed in Iraq since that declaration of war began.I don't hear the libs barking on that.
FactCheck.org: Did more soldiers die during Bill Clinton's term than have died fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan?
I know that congress wrote the Stimulus bill. The president is the one that is massively pushing it as his fix to the economic crisis that the government itself created. He is hoping to also use the pork in the bill to pay back favors to groups like ACORN (under investigation for voter fraud in 12 states), planned parenthood, and the environmental extremist groups.
If he had any experience in business or had ever run a single thing in his life that had to actually create a job for someone, he would look at this bill, send it back to congress and say "Come on you guys! What is this crap? Re do it again and remember that we are already $3trillion in debt. and this is THE PEOPLES MONEY, not ours."
So how can some one that is already behind on their bills (the Gov.) able to spend another $780 billion that they don't have? They are going to raise taxes like a SOB on those of us that still pay them to try and cover this mess. As the owner of multiple businesses, if my taxes go up any more, I will close 2 of my businesses and let my employees go. That will be great for the economy and creating more jobs if every small business owner does that!
Obama knew what the economy was doing the entire time he was running for President and to hear him whine about it the other night made me sick. What a wimp! If he didn't like it, he shouldn't have run for president.
I have a really hard time trusting a man that could find the time to write two books about himself but never found the time to author a single bill in his name. He is a joke and the American people have been had. The bloom will be coming off of his rose very soon. Even the NY Times is starting to take notice and that is saying a lot!
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Moonlight is DEAD ON. Our country is in big trouble, the massive massive massive spending bill is going to make the bleeding worse. Watch out for tremendous inflation. Its going to be real fun. Hopefully one day the American population will wake up and blame somebody other than Bush, maybe OBAMA?
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Gee, as I recall when Bush was President we were reminded that a person could be critical of a President as he prepared to make a major blunder and still be an American. Now I am told that I am a Commie if I disagree with the President as you wave the American flag in our face. Oh how things have change.
Maybe Obama is President now and he needs to get used to it. And yes, Rush did state that he hoped that Obama would fail at implementing his socialist goals just as the libs hoped that Bush would fail in his attempts to go to war in Iraq.
Stop whining and get used to it. I know it is culture shock for Democrats to actually be responsible for something rather than just throwing rocks. If a person doesnt want to take a big swig of kool aid and watch this country turn into one more crippled european socialist economy that too is patriotic. Seems like Al has suddenly become Mr. America Love it or Leave it all in the last few weeks. Instead of reminding us that the campaign is over and Obama is president now, you and the libs need to remind yourself that he is president now. The messiah isnt speaking to a crowd in Berlin now. He works for us.
As stated before though, I am willing to meet you halfway and give Obama the same level of acceptance that the libs gave Bush. Will that work for you?
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Guest
Guest
This is interesting, who's pocket is Obama in? Is anyone scared about where the country is headed?
Panel to Advise Obama on Economy
By JEFF ZELENY
Published: February 6, 2009
WASHINGTON — Saying that he wanted to leave no stone unturned in finding ways to put people back to work, President Obama on Friday appointed a team of outside economic advisers to offer suggestions on ways to respond to the nation's recession.
The White House Economic Recovery Advisory Board, led by a former Federal Reserve chairman, Paul Volcker,
Panel to Advise Obama on Economy
By JEFF ZELENY
Published: February 6, 2009
WASHINGTON — Saying that he wanted to leave no stone unturned in finding ways to put people back to work, President Obama on Friday appointed a team of outside economic advisers to offer suggestions on ways to respond to the nation's recession.
The White House Economic Recovery Advisory Board, led by a former Federal Reserve chairman, Paul Volcker,
Who is Paul Volcker? Obama appoints a longtime enemy of the working class
By Patrick Martin
29 November 2008
"Paul Volcker hasn't been in Washington for quite some time," Obama said, "and that's part of the reason he can provide a fresh perspective."
Volcker's record from 1979 to 1987 suggests what this "fresh perspective" will consist of. Unemployment in the United States reached 11.3 percent in 1982, double the level of 1975. The average wage of young workers fell 30 percent by 1987. Infant mortality, family violence, drug addiction and other concomitants of economic hardship soared.
But the wealthiest 1 percent of the population saw a staggering 50 percent increase in their wealth during that period. That is why the American ruling elite remembers the Volcker years fondly, and why, acting through their servant Obama, the financial aristocracy has summoned the old reactionary for one last service in attacking the working class.
Entire article found here:
Who is Paul Volcker? Obama appoints a longtime enemy of the working class
By Patrick Martin
29 November 2008
"Paul Volcker hasn't been in Washington for quite some time," Obama said, "and that's part of the reason he can provide a fresh perspective."
Volcker's record from 1979 to 1987 suggests what this "fresh perspective" will consist of. Unemployment in the United States reached 11.3 percent in 1982, double the level of 1975. The average wage of young workers fell 30 percent by 1987. Infant mortality, family violence, drug addiction and other concomitants of economic hardship soared.
But the wealthiest 1 percent of the population saw a staggering 50 percent increase in their wealth during that period. That is why the American ruling elite remembers the Volcker years fondly, and why, acting through their servant Obama, the financial aristocracy has summoned the old reactionary for one last service in attacking the working class.
Entire article found here:
Who is Paul Volcker? Obama appoints a longtime enemy of the working class
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With his psychotic rants would Al3 be an instant decline for individual health insurance with all the carriers or is there a company that would pick him up? Nobody better criticize his golden calf Obama, the Savior. Everybody get behind Obamas European socialism and if you dissent, people like Al3 are going to silence you. Maybe Al3 can institute the 'fairness' doctrine for the insurance industry.
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Quote from Al3: "it's time to have it moved to the Fight Club because when you folks start to lose, you go postal and deliver the moronic kinds of personal attacks"
Al3, do you mean like this?
Country First. All you godless pinko commies should move the hell to North Korea where you belong!
There are some stupid people on this board, but Healthguy, you currently lead the parade.
we'd first take out the *** Rush and later on Fox
and the other twenty million whack-jobs on the conservative side
there are so many of you idiots on the far right
These are all taken from your recent posts.
I'm so glad its the weekend so you have time to post your liberal hypocrisy.
Al3, you have yet to issue a reasoned, rational , logical argument as to why we should support President Obama's path to failure, yet you wouldn't give President Bush any support.
I'd like to read a cogent, articulate argument for that, as opposed to your rants.
Al3, do you mean like this?
Country First. All you godless pinko commies should move the hell to North Korea where you belong!
There are some stupid people on this board, but Healthguy, you currently lead the parade.
we'd first take out the *** Rush and later on Fox
and the other twenty million whack-jobs on the conservative side
there are so many of you idiots on the far right
These are all taken from your recent posts.
I'm so glad its the weekend so you have time to post your liberal hypocrisy.
Al3, you have yet to issue a reasoned, rational , logical argument as to why we should support President Obama's path to failure, yet you wouldn't give President Bush any support.
I'd like to read a cogent, articulate argument for that, as opposed to your rants.
