Obamacrap EHB and HHS Joystick

[Crabcake Johnny]

The most die hard liberals don't want a system that works. They want a system that's broke for everyone.

They don't care if someone poor waits in an ER 6 hours. They simply want the rich sitting next to them. In a perfect liberal system, no one wins but everyone suffers equally.

Liberals have never wanted the poor to become rich - just for the rich to become poor.

 

[Ann H]

In another thread entitled "Dying man denied ambulance by govt healthcare", aheff posted the following:

This is a black and white issue. Either you believe that the government can do it best (national healthcare/single payer/much regulation/John Galt) or you believe in free enterprise. If our health system has complete transparency and if consumers had real skin in the game, much of the problem (it is a solely a cost issue after all) would go away.

Aheff's statement is thunderous in its simplicity.

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

Transparency, for me, is the single most important issue. Did I have a right to know what my catscan was going to cost me when I went to the ER a while back? Yes. How about the basic ER charge? Yes. Medicine given? Yes again.

Not only wasn't I informed, but asked as they could not answer.

We have Right Time urgent care. They always had their prices posted not only inside but on their website. That is, until they really started pushing hard about accepting insurance.

Now there's no more prices on the wall and prices are gone from the website. Because after all, who cares what it costs when the carrier pays.

 

[Yagents]

It's really amazing the two different mindsets. No matter what system prevails, the rich will always get the best healthcare. Period. If you bring the rich down, nobody will have jobs and it's a race to the bottom. The rich don't care to see everyone be poor or become poorer. Last time I checked, charities receive most of their money from the rich. Last time I checked, our country was built on opportunity and being rewarded for hard work. Otherwise, my palms are out, where are my freebies?

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

This is not a Monarchy where your place in life is determined by your birth. It's not even the early 1990's where wealth was only derived by nepotism.

It's now the opposite. Ford doesn't run Ford - he can't handle the job. No - in todays' word regardless of where you are or how poor you are, your life is determined by you.

If you don't believe that you can't go from zero to hero, talk to Oprah or anyone who invented anything....or Obama.

So us (the conservatives) are a bit sick of the hands all sticking out waiting for non-stop bail outs. Yes Al, there are some people who need true assistance. Some are mentally ill, others are disabled and others just need some temporary assistance - maybe a loss of job or something.

"Ask not what your country can do for you...." Now it's the reverse. Now it's people depending on what the government can do for them.

 

[FEproducerKen]

Health Agent: This is not a Monarchy where your place in life is determined by your birth. It's not even the early 1990's where wealth was only derived by nepotism

You may have heard of the Kock Brother's who's place in life WAS determined by their birth and who has pledged to spend over $88 million in the next presidential election to make the welathy wealthier and the poor porrer and polute our air so our grandchildren can't breathe. They are the people who PAID the GOP and got at least 12 of them to change their position and vote to defund the EPA and forget about clean air.

Health Agent: It's now the opposite. Ford doesn't run Ford - he can't handle the job. No - in todays' word regardless of where you are or how poor you are, your life is determined by you.
If you don't believe that you can't go from zero to hero, talk to Oprah or anyone who invented anything....or Obama.

If you look at these two as an example then why do conservatives hate them so much?

Health Agent: So us (the conservatives) are a bit sick of the hands all sticking out waiting for non-stop bail outs. Yes Al, there are some people who need true assistance. Some are mentally ill, others are disabled and others just need some temporary assistance - maybe a loss of job or something.

Hands sticking out? Subsidies and tax breaks for the wealthy are the same thing as hand outs and as long as the wealthy and corporate elite keep sending lobbyist with their hands full of money to party with congress they will keep getting those handouts.


Health Agent: "Ask not what your country can do for you...." Now it's the reverse. Now it's people depending on what the government can do for them


Right you are. Michelle Bachmann, Chuck Grassley, and my own congressman have received over $1 million in farm subsidies. The oil companies really enjoy the annual $4 billion dollars in oil subsidies. They try and get everything their country will give them. It is not only the poor people in this country that have their hands out. Charles and David Koch personally fund over 40 different right wing and libertarian web sites in order to influence public opinion and help spread the talking points you hear from conservatives all over the country. Rushbo and the Beck *** were a couple of their personal guests at their annual get together. They get a very good return on their money invested in their government and yes the ninth richest boys in the country enjoy the benefits of us the taxpayer.

 

[Dave020]

Well, lookie, lookie, lookie. The carriers ("management" in this case) hate it just as much as you conservatives do. They decided that in a world of finite resources that agents (the "union" in this case) did not contribute enough to the enterprise so they decided to pay you what they think your real value is.

Actually, they decided to pay all agents what they feel they are worth based on the production of each, individual agent. Only the lowest producers really got hurt on this. Kind of the opposite of unions where the slackers are kept and paid under collective bargaining. Now, if you are not producing health insurance, you lose. If you are producing, you are doing fine.

They obviously didn't see your hundred grand worth the payout... so they cut it. It's what any good conservative businessperson would do and is the kind of policy every good conservative would support.

OK, maybe the MLR is interference in the free market, but so are taxes and child-labor laws and similar social legislation. My point is that IF the carriers valued your contribution to their "system" they would have found other ways to cut costs so as to keep your six-figure income intact.

They did what is in their best interest... and you are pissed at them for it? Are you going to tell me they could not have found a way to keep within the bounds of the MLR and have continued your comp? Of course they could have. You can blame Obamacare all you want, but at the end of the day your pay was cut by those who pay you (duh!) As I say, it was in their best interest to do that.
Al

It was bound to happen but again, it only has a drastic effect on the incomes of low-level producers. Between tiered comp levels, bonuses and other mechanisms, the good carriers (at least in CA) found a way to make it up to the good producers as best they can. They "did what they had to do" to agents who don't write any business.

Surprisingly, I am 35% ahead on income year to date on health insurance over 2010 even after the "slash and burn" of MLR, and am not working any harder.

Also suprisingly, I am getting more and more of the 8.1MM uninsured who are suddenly becoming interested in getting a health plan. 2 just today with no prior health insurance in over 5 years (and healthy). I do a fair amount to PCIP as well.

 

[ins.dave]

FE and AL3 had a baby and it was uglier than Rosie O'Donnell ...

"They don't care if someone who is rich waits in the ER for 6 hours. They simply don't want someone poor (especially a minority of color) sitting next to them. In a perfect conservative system, no one wins... except the rich who are more than equal.

What Al3 can't get his big nog'n around, is that, if we had it his way, EVERYONE would be waitng not 6 but 10 - 12 hours and forget about have'n any options as far as which medical providers you will deal with.

 

[AndreaSti]

FE and AL3 had a baby and it was uglier than Rosie O'Donnell ...

Haha - be nice please! Question, I am fairly new to this forum. Are these two insurance agents? I mean everyone is entitled to their opinion but I am baffled AL3 especially, what's his deal? Does he sell insurance for free so he isn't greedy like he claims the rest of us are? Just wondering.

 

[somarco]

Al3 is a writer, and a very good one. His opinions on insurance and health care are delusional. And yes, he is a licensed agent.