Ohio National, a big variable annuity provider, exits the annuity business

[Tahoe Ray]

Here we go again...

 

[Allen Trent]

With most Chronic Illness riders, at the time the chronic illness claim is made, the death benefit is re-calculated to its "present value" before calculating the 4% monthly benefit amount.

I genuinely appreciate your passion on the subject. It is more rare today in the industry. I am one of those that does read the contracts & investigate.

You may be correct that some of the inferior ADB CIA riders work in the way you state. However, it is not how all work. Most I have researched have you select at issue what portion of your face amount you want to be ADB CIA. The CIA is then set for the life of contract. You then select the monthly % of 2% or 4% meaning at max CIA collection, you have either 50 months or 25 months of max available. Claim submissions do not reduce the CIA benefit amount selected at issue unless you proactively made a policy change to reduce both the life face amount & the ADB CIA benefit amount.

So, like stand alone LTC, it appears there are inferior offerings in the marketplace. Again, my thoughts on how to address the risk:

Best= stand alone LTC
Better than nothing= hybrid combo
Crisis Mgt = Elder care attorney Medicaid planning

 

[Mr_Ed]

I genuinely appreciate your passion on the subject. It is more rare today in the industry. I am one of those that does read the contracts & investigate.

You may be correct that some of the inferior ADB CIA riders work in the way you state. However, it is not how all work. Most I have researched have you select at issue what portion of your face amount you want to be ADB CIA. The CIA is then set for the life of contract. You then select the monthly % of 2% or 4% meaning at max CIA collection, you have either 50 months or 25 months of max available. Claim submissions do not reduce the CIA benefit amount selected at issue unless you proactively made a policy change to reduce both the life face amount & the ADB CIA benefit amount.

So, like stand alone LTC, it appears there are inferior offerings in the marketplace. Again, my thoughts on how to address the risk:

Best= stand alone LTC
Better than nothing= hybrid combo
Crisis Mgt = Elder care attorney Medicaid planning

Most chronic illness riders work the way I described. There are only a handful that do not work that way.

 

[Allen Trent]

Here we go again...

Is this a debate you have had before or seen? I apologize if I re-opened an issue or I am in the wrong on some aspects.

I am just not seeing the all or nothing hatred of hybrids as if it is no better than doing nothing. It is like telling a client if they don't buy $2M 30 year term to insure their full human life value that anything less is not a plan, screaming at them for doing something like a $1M of 10 or 20 year term. Ideal/Perfect--NO. Better than nothing ---YES.

 

[Tahoe Ray]

Is this a debate you have had before or seen? I apologize if I re-opened an issue or I am in the wrong on some aspects.

I am just not seeing the all or nothing hatred of hybrids as if it is no better than doing nothing. It is like telling a client if they don't buy $2M 30 year term to insure their full human life value that anything less is not a plan, screaming at them for doing something like a $1M of 10 or 20 year term. Ideal/Perfect--NO. Better than nothing ---YES.

No need to apologize.

In the past, he has refused to acknowledge that there are MANY 101g riders that allow for dollar for dollar reductions on the DB (the way you described it).

We're all wrong and he's right...

 

[ltcadviser]

https://i.giphy.com/media/LvaswPm6IHn44/giphy.gif

 

[Allen Trent]

No need to apologize.

In the past, he has refused to acknowledge that there are MANY 101g riders that allow for dollar for dollar reductions on the DB (the way you described it).

We're all wrong and he's right...

Ok, I get it now. I had no idea. Thanks

 

[Mr_Ed]

No need to apologize.

In the past, he has refused to acknowledge that there are MANY 101g riders that allow for dollar for dollar reductions on the DB (the way you described it).

We're all wrong and he's right...

If you have to imagine I've said things that I haven't said, then you've already lost the debate. I never said there were none. I said "most" 101g riders work the way I've described. Very few work the way you've described. Most of the 101g riders that are sold work the way I've described.

 

[scagnt83]

If you have to imagine I've said things that I haven't said, then you've already lost the debate. I never said there were none. I said "most" 101g riders work the way I've described. Very few work the way you've described. Most of the 101g riders that are sold work the way I've described.

And if you cant accurately read what others write, then there is no point in responding to you at all.

Ray did not claim that you said "none". He said you "fail to acknowledge that many do".

Big difference between those. One that an insurance professional should be able to differentiate between.

----

And to say that "very few" give a dollar per dollar reduction is completely false.

Either you are purposely obfuscating the truth. Or you have no clue about the current options on the market.

 

[Mr_Ed]

And to say that "very few" give a dollar per dollar reduction is completely false.

Either you are purposely obfuscating the truth. Or you have no clue about the current options on the market.

Please list all the companies that sell chronic illness riders that have dollar per dollar reductions.