RNA Essential Life

[PaperHanger]

Be careful with the RNA Essential Life for Declines

This product is very difficult to get approved...like basically no meds or history at all. If there is *any* history, best to call the Risk Assessment.

IF THEY DECLINE - RNA WILL NOT ACCEPT THEM FOR ANYTHING ELSE !!

I believe the blacklist lasts either 2 years or forever.
Do not try 1st for Essential Life, and think SIWL is a backup...it isn't...company policy - they won't accept the app...

I have a client with a slight case of the sugar, taking oral meds...their Ess Life Risk Assesment was like table 8 or something...like double the SIWL rate, which he would pass w/flying colors.

Best to sign up SIWL first....and then upgrade in a year to Essential Life as a replacement, IF they can pass....

And I get the same dumb questions from them too:
"why do they want to replace their $20k policy at $60mo with a $25,000 policy for $55mo??"

--are you serious??

I just finished a SIWL to Ess Life upgrade, nice free $G.

I'm also quoting a F60 n/s client on the PaidUpAt65 policy, $25k face;
$280mo for 5 years...and it really is an incredible value....when she finishes paying premiums, she'll have $15k paid in, but CV is already $10.5k....that's as close to 'free insurance' as you can get in the FE/WL world.

She currently has $10k WL with me, but also $50k Term with someone else. Trying to convince her she dosn't need the term, needs more WL, and hey what a value it is to make full commission on a $280 premium instead of the $57mo level pay!

 

[TwiLight]

For you guys not familiar with Fully Underwritten Life, let me give you the skinny. Anyone over the age of 65 is almost guaranteed to have an APS if $25,000 or higher Face.

It is quite normal to take 30-60 days for APS to be returned to insurance companies from a Doctors office. You need to followup with the Doc's offices personally after 30 days to get them moving. All an Insurance company is going to do is send a letter for second request. Phone calls work pretty good. Need a song and dance story how their client is depending on this info to be sent to the insurance company in order to close a loan or something as urgent as that.

Medicals, Blood, Urine are all pretty quick. The Lag is always the APS.

 

[jdeasy]

Be careful with the RNA Essential Life for Declines

This product is very difficult to get approved...like basically no meds or history at all. If there is *any* history, best to call the Risk Assessment.

IF THEY DECLINE - RNA WILL NOT ACCEPT THEM FOR ANYTHING ELSE !!

I believe the blacklist lasts either 2 years or forever.
Do not try 1st for Essential Life, and think SIWL is a backup...it isn't...company policy - they won't accept the app...

I have a client with a slight case of the sugar, taking oral meds...their Ess Life Risk Assesment was like table 8 or something...like double the SIWL rate, which he would pass w/flying colors.

Best to sign up SIWL first....and then upgrade in a year to Essential Life as a replacement, IF they can pass....

And I get the same dumb questions from them too:
"why do they want to replace their $20k policy at $60mo with a $25,000 policy for $55mo??"

--are you serious??

I just finished a SIWL to Ess Life upgrade, nice free .

I'm also quoting a F60 n/s client on the PaidUpAt65 policy, $25k face;
$280mo for 5 years...and it really is an incredible value....when she finishes paying premiums, she'll have $15k paid in, but CV is already $10.5k....that's as close to 'free insurance' as you can get in the FE/WL world.

She currently has $10k WL with me, but also $50k Term with someone else. Trying to convince her she dosn't need the term, needs more WL, and hey what a value it is to make full commission on a $280 premium instead of the $57mo level pay!

I don't find this to be the case at all. I get almost all of my Essential Life cases approved. Some with a small rating but that's still less costly than SIWL. I did have one recently that was approved at table 7 and SIWL would have been less if he was over 50 but he was 45 and Mon and AmCon's SIWL was still higher than RNA's table 7.

But I came into the FE world from writing fully underwritten life all the time. I'll agree that someone without that background should not be fooling with underwritten cases. Expecially for the FE type people.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

For you guys not familiar with Fully Underwritten Life, let me give you the skinny. Anyone over the age of 65 is almost guaranteed to have an APS if $25,000 or higher Face.

It is quite normal to take 30-60 days for APS to be returned to insurance companies from a Doctors office. You need to followup with the Doc's offices personally after 30 days to get them moving. All an Insurance company is going to do is send a letter for second request. Phone calls work pretty good. Need a song and dance story how their client is depending on this info to be sent to the insurance company in order to close a loan or something as urgent as that.

Medicals, Blood, Urine are all pretty quick. The Lag is always the APS.

All of RNA's Essential life for over age 65 requires a paramed. They can and do order APS's but I find that to very rare on those. I do find them to be quick to order an APS on the non med though.

 

[PaperHanger]

If the majority of your Ess Life cases are approved, that just means you know when to use that product and when not to use it. IMO only 10% of the people 65 and older can qualify for it.

Point was, if Ess Life declines them....RNA won't accept them for *anything else*...that is the case 100% of the time -- it is company policy.

Most FE companies require PHI. Ess Life does not....I do my own PHI via the Risk Assessment before applying to this product.

Their look-back is 10 years.
The scrutinize even HPB Rx
It takes a month to get paid....and when some client NSFs, it is extra frustrating they threw away such a great deal.

If you sell SIWL first, they are happy and think you're great. Then when you visit again and get them Ess Life with more face and less premium, they think you're awesome!!

But if I sell Ess Life first, and they get declined...oh boy...they're upset at the decline, and all backup policies are much more expensive..and if there's a spouse involved, consider that canceled too...and to top it off, there was likely some running around I had to do just to get through UW...a complete waste of time and money.

Only once, I've ever had a Ess Life get declined, and client turn around and get a more expensive policy they could qualify for.

I love the product, and sell it 'when I can'....but always do an extra job of warm-down when I tell them this program is very tough to enter, please don't be upset if it doesn't work out.

The only time I'll try Ess Life out of the gate:
1: 0 Rx - none, nada
2: zero health history in 10+ years
3: more likely if they are under 65
4: they are fresh complected, bright eyes, vibrant
5: I think they are price savvy enough, that I need the low premium
6: I am replacing an existing policy, and it's the only thing I've got to beat the rate....nothing to lose.


I don't carry it in my presentation book...it stays in the car-box.
Ess Life is like a Ferrari...very nice when it works..costly when it doesn't.
If it works out, you'll never be replaced.
But think about it...the premium is lower....the commish is lower...the risk of failure is higher...to me, it is best used as a secondary upsale, later on...I used to feel obligated to use Ess Life if I thought there was any chance of success. No More. Not until they stop blacklisting declines.

 

[Justin Bilyj]

If the majority of your Ess Life cases are approved, that just means you know when to use that product and when not to use it. IMO only 10% of the people 65 and older can qualify for it.

Point was, if Ess Life declines them....RNA won't accept them for *anything else*...that is the case 100% of the time -- it is company policy.

Most FE companies require PHI. Ess Life does not....I do my own PHI via the Risk Assessment before applying to this product.

Their look-back is 10 years.
The scrutinize even HPB Rx
It takes a month to get paid....and when some client NSFs, it is extra frustrating they threw away such a great deal.

If you sell SIWL first, they are happy and think you're great. Then when you visit again and get them Ess Life with more face and less premium, they think you're awesome!!

But if I sell Ess Life first, and they get declined...oh boy...they're upset at the decline, and all backup policies are much more expensive..and if there's a spouse involved, consider that canceled too...and to top it off, there was likely some running around I had to do just to get through UW...a complete waste of time and money.

Only once, I've ever had a Ess Life get declined, and client turn around and get a more expensive policy they could qualify for.

I love the product, and sell it 'when I can'....but always do an extra job of warm-down when I tell them this program is very tough to enter, please don't be upset if it doesn't work out.

The only time I'll try Ess Life out of the gate:
1: 0 Rx - none, nada
2: zero health history in 10+ years
3: more likely if they are under 65
4: they are fresh complected, bright eyes, vibrant
5: I think they are price savvy enough, that I need the low premium
6: I am replacing an existing policy, and it's the only thing I've got to beat the rate....nothing to lose.


I don't carry it in my presentation book...it stays in the car-box.
Ess Life is like a Ferrari...very nice when it works..costly when it doesn't.
If it works out, you'll never be replaced.
But think about it...the premium is lower....the commish is lower...the risk of failure is higher...to me, it is best used as a secondary upsale, later on...I used to feel obligated to use Ess Life if I thought there was any chance of success. No More. Not until they stop blacklisting declines.

Great post ph, I liked the numbered reasons. wish more companies/products were listed like that.

 

[HoosierLife]

Haven't been around long enough yet, but is it a good idea to remember some of these folks once its been a year and see if they qualify for ess life or some other cheaper product and try to sell it? Would that be considered churning?

 

[VolAgent]

Haven't been around long enough yet, but is it a good idea to remember some of these folks once its been a year and see if they qualify for ess life or some other cheaper product and try to sell it? Would that be considered churning?

Sounds like a great way to lose a contract if you do enough of it. I don't think it would get the regulators concerned as it was benefiting the client. Although they may ask why you put them in the SIWL product with the intention of replacing it a year later.

I really see a company getting upset if you consistently put people in one product and do an internal replacement a year later.

 

[PaperHanger]

To my knowlege, churning requires a benefit to only the agent...if the client is benefited, I don't think it can be considered chrurning.

btw - I should clarify...these are RNA SIWL policies that are going to Ess Life...same company...I send replacement papers, no issue.

I believe carrier contracts will usually tell you not to flip them for 2 years.

If you think about it...if a client who has a Tobacco or ROP policy...and now they are non-tobacco, or now the lookback window has surpassed their health event which caused the ROP - somebody is going to get them a cheaper policy, might as well be you.

However, if you sell a WL policy, then a couple years later convince them to use that cash value to pre-pay 3 months premium on a new policy which is actually a higher rate...I believe that is churning....it is a scheme which in the end leaves the client worse off than before -- and generally using cash value from one policy to fund another policy which is actually inferior to the original policy.

To Vol Agent - I've actually talked to RNA about this...asked why they blacklist Ess Life declines...they say 'company policy'...so I ask why not just sign up SIWL, then later on get Ess Life. They say go for it, it is handled just like any other new app, there is no company policy against that, pays full commission, no chargeback on the original policy if it's been fully earned.

See my avatar? he's reading the fine print... :-)

If I have a client who had a heart attack 1 year ago, I'll get him a ROP policy. This 'holds his place' just in case he has another major health event.
But then next year, he's >2yrs past the last heart attack. He's eligible for immediate coverage at much better rate. The client has earned the right to the best rates, and I am his broker.

About the worst I've seen a carrier do is send a letter that tells me to inform the client that this will cause a re-set of the contestability period and cash value accumulation. umm, OK.

But in reality....
Most tobacco users will still be using when you call back.
Most ROP will either be chronic and not eligible for immediate, or they've already had another heart attack or whatever.
Most >65 would never qualify for Ess Life anyways.

As far as being upset is concerned....I'm sure consumers are 'upset' when their premiums go up on health/property insurance....go read the contract.

If the carrier is upset about flipping...hey, I assume they've read the contract they gave me to sign.

 

[jdeasy]

If the majority of your Ess Life cases are approved, that just means you know when to use that product and when not to use it. IMO only 10% of the people 65 and older can qualify for it.

Point was, if Ess Life declines them....RNA won't accept them for *anything else*...that is the case 100% of the time -- it is company policy.

Most FE companies require PHI. Ess Life does not....I do my own PHI via the Risk Assessment before applying to this product.

Their look-back is 10 years.
The scrutinize even HPB Rx
It takes a month to get paid....and when some client NSFs, it is extra frustrating they threw away such a great deal.

If you sell SIWL first, they are happy and think you're great. Then when you visit again and get them Ess Life with more face and less premium, they think you're awesome!!

But if I sell Ess Life first, and they get declined...oh boy...they're upset at the decline, and all backup policies are much more expensive..and if there's a spouse involved, consider that canceled too...and to top it off, there was likely some running around I had to do just to get through UW...a complete waste of time and money.

Only once, I've ever had a Ess Life get declined, and client turn around and get a more expensive policy they could qualify for.

I love the product, and sell it 'when I can'....but always do an extra job of warm-down when I tell them this program is very tough to enter, please don't be upset if it doesn't work out.

The only time I'll try Ess Life out of the gate:
1: 0 Rx - none, nada
2: zero health history in 10+ years
3: more likely if they are under 65
4: they are fresh complected, bright eyes, vibrant
5: I think they are price savvy enough, that I need the low premium
6: I am replacing an existing policy, and it's the only thing I've got to beat the rate....nothing to lose.


I don't carry it in my presentation book...it stays in the car-box.
Ess Life is like a Ferrari...very nice when it works..costly when it doesn't.
If it works out, you'll never be replaced.
But think about it...the premium is lower....the commish is lower...the risk of failure is higher...to me, it is best used as a secondary upsale, later on...I used to feel obligated to use Ess Life if I thought there was any chance of success. No More. Not until they stop blacklisting declines.

Yes, you do have to know how to use it but you standards are way too strict for the product. I just had a lady approved standard that takes two meds for hypertension. I recently had a guy approved at table 2 that takes oral meds for diabetes.

I had a guy approved table 2 that had a stroke 5 years ago. I did learn to stop calling underwriting for risk assessments.

And I do know that they will not take them on any other product once declined but that's not an issue to me. I just place them elsewhere.

A lot of agents have gotten into big trouble though by leading with Essential Life for FE. That is almost always a mistake. It was way worse when it was Royal Prime and the minimum was $10,000. That's a big reason the minimum is now $25,000. Agents using it as an FE product ruined it for all the rest of us. That's what happened to the guy that runs the FE101 site. He was using primarily Royal Prime and was replacing business left and right because of the price. Once it wasn't issued he was stuck because he couldn't go back with anything even close to what he had quoted.

Agents can pay him $50 to learn about that.

 

[VolAgent]

To my knowlege, churning requires a benefit to only the agent...if the client is benefited, I don't think it can be considered chrurning.

btw - I should clarify...these are RNA SIWL policies that are going to Ess Life...same company...I send replacement papers, no issue.

I believe carrier contracts will usually tell you not to flip them for 2 years.

If you think about it...if a client who has a Tobacco or ROP policy...and now they are non-tobacco, or now the lookback window has surpassed their health event which caused the ROP - somebody is going to get them a cheaper policy, might as well be you.

However, if you sell a WL policy, then a couple years later convince them to use that cash value to pre-pay 3 months premium on a new policy which is actually a higher rate...I believe that is churning....it is a scheme which in the end leaves the client worse off than before -- and generally using cash value from one policy to fund another policy which is actually inferior to the original policy.

You are costing the company money for every one of these you do. They are paying somewhere around 150% FYC or more when you factor in all the layers, plus there is the cost of actually underwriting and issuing the product.

A few will not attract any attention, but you start doing a lot of it and it will get a lot of attention. Plus, they all go down as lapses and will tank your persistency.