Sicko the movie

[Crabcake Johnny]

The real problem with a national debate on health care is people want perfection. The same people who can't stand the system as it is now also won't put up for any reduction in the quality of care or any waiting times for procedures with a government run system.

Anytime someone comes up with a comprehensive plan it's easy to shoot it full of holes because any system will come with its own set of flaws - major flaws.

I think we've seen in the past that when Americans really want change it happens. We can look at the changes that have taken place of the past 100 years and clearly see that when the public really wants something done it gets done.

I see no public outcry for a national healthcare system. It's a nice tag line for politicians not unlike "better schools" and "less crime."


Polls are worthless. Coming up to the average American and asking "would you like free healthcare" it a bit like asking "would you like a free car?" The answer is "duh."

I did like the Moore movie but regarding Cuba, I don't see Americans floating on rafts trying to get there.

 

[Winter_123]

Each year Medicare costs the taxpayers who fund the program and those who are beneficiaries of the program more than the year before. The beneficiaries have higher out of pocket, higher premiums and fewer providers than they did the year prior. The medical providers suffer from little or no increase in reimbursement and in many cases lower reimbursement than the year before.

What part of this equation is working?

The part of the equation that is working is the part that you do not mix into your analysis or consider important- that millions of older Americans who would not otherwise get health care have access to some basic care, even if through an expensive and ineffecient system. No one thinks that private carriers are exempt from fraud or waste either, believe me.

The fact that costs are going up is undisputed. That is what the whole dilemma is all about. My question was: If you took Medicare away, with all of its faults, what are you going to offer the folks to purchase with their social security checks or are we going to tell them to get a second or third job. If your plan to fix the problem of providing health care to the elderly is to simply stop providing it then say so, and if that is the case, then we can agree that a discussion about how to provide more health care access for the rest of American would sort of be pointless. You can say that Medicare is broken or an example of government mismanagement except that millions of younger Americans wish they were eligible. It is not very effective to counter the calls for government intervention by saying "we don't want to see government run programs like medicare extended to others" because the reality is that increasingly many people do. You can say otherwise but at the risk of totally misunderstanding the political mood in this country on both the left and the right. You have to look at it beyond the fear of losing insurance sales. It is larger than that.

Winter

 

[nate124]

I see no public outcry for a national healthcare system. It's a nice tag line for politicians not unlike "better schools" and "less crime."

I agree with this completely. Actually, with everything you posted above. We would have to start somewhere... and like everything it would take trial and error to figure out what kind of a national healthcare system would actually work. In the meantime, there would be plenty of bitching about what it lacks... and what would make it better.

I do believe we will see some sort of national healthcare in the future. I just do not think it will be any time soon.

I had a client the other day mention this. They said... "Well, hopefully soon we will have a national healthcare option!" I tried my best not to laugh... especially since this was the reason they were not buying from me. I actually asked them what would happen if one of them broke their leg, or needed major surgery before national healthcare was in place? They responded with "Well, we'll have to cross that bridge when we come to it, I guess"....At that point, I "pulled a John" and simply stood up, shook their hand and left. The hidden reason was that the "price was too high".... (either I did a poor job of pre-qualifying them, or they really did a good job of convincing me they really wanted health insurance)

Anyways, just thought some would get a kick out of their reasoning behind not buying from me... and it goes along with this thread sort of.

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

Lol.

Again, we can look at the changes that have taken place of the last 100 years - many that I'm sure corporate America wasn't necessarily pulling for like labor laws, minimum wage, discrimination in the workplace, laws regarding overtime, etc...

Anyone is free to read Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" to see how far we've come. I'm not too sure that 50 years ago Obama and Hillary would have been running for president. I'm also not sure corporate America had anything to do with those changes. Those changes were made by the people.

America does indeed correct what we consider to be "huge unfairnesses" that exist in our society. We have now achieved a state of complete complacency which might not be good but speaks to the fact that as it stands now there's no public outcry for basically anything.

That's not to say that we won't stop progressing as a nation, but a large sector of the population has to be pretty pissed about something to affect change. I don't know what the next major issue will be for Americans to rally - but it won't be health insurance.

 

[Winter_123]

Lol.

I don't know what the next major issue will be for Americans to rally - but it won't be health insurance.

This is true as long as radical Islam controls the attention of the country. However, all of the major polls show that Americans number one concern and issue after Iraq and terrorism is health care. However far down the road some of these issues may be for the insurance sales force, they are less far down the road for the public and there is not a single candidate Republican or Democrat who does not know that. They cannot dismiss it as easily as others. Health care reform in some shape or form is already brewing bigtime. The notion that it is not a major issue for Americans is wishful thinking from within the insurance industry. All of the evidence is otherwise.

Winter

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

I call tell you at any social event I attend or just BSing around with my neighbors we do discuss some issues. No one mentions health insurance.

I call my leads and this is the typical conversation:

Me: "So how much are you currently paying?"

Prospect: "Around $500 a month."

Me: "Well based on what you've told me I can save you around $150."

Prospect: "That's fine, but I have to give my cat a bath so you caught me at a bad time. Can you call me back in say next August?"

 

[nate124]

Me: "Well based on what you've told me I can save you around $150."

Prospect: "That's fine, but I have to give my cat a bath so you caught me at a bad time. Can you call be back in say next August?"

hahaha!!! Please tell me you have actually gotten that objection before!!!!

 

[somarco]

Winter -

If Medicare were to go away I would not lose sales.

If Medicare were expanded to cover everyone I would not lose sales.

This is not about me. Don't try and make it that way.

 

[somarco]

number one concern and issue after Iraq and terrorism is health care.

and

Health care reform in some shape or form is already brewing

Methinks you are confusing health care with health insurance. They are not the same.

Quite a few make that same mistake.

Once you are able to distinguish between the two perhaps your point will have merit.

 

[Winter_123]

and



Methinks you are confusing health care with health insurance. They are not the same.

Quite a few make that same mistake.

.

If you don't see the relationship between the level of health care that one has access to and their ability to pay for it, I think they can explain that to you at the front desk of any doctor's office that you may wish to visit. It's called a "wallet biopsy."

Winter