Term Life: Do I Risk Denial, or Wait 5 Yrs to Apply?

[Momof4inPA]

If you just turned 40 and know your MIB will show things that label you "a risk" to an insurer, do you gamble on your broker to find you an Insurer with lenient underwriting? OR, do you wait 5 years expecting medical situation to look better knowing rates will also be a little higher(avoid possible denial now)?

I was in a few auto accidents many yrs ago (not at fault) - had no MAJOR issues 8 years ago, but now (just turned 40) I guess you can say it's caught up to me. Problems with back/neck pain, arthritis. One dr rx fibro (my pcp says no, my MRI's after accident showed degenerative disc, and degenerative joint disease). He wanted me to see specialist to rule out Rheumatoid arthritis and get some other scans. It may sound crazy but I don't want to get any further tests done that lower my insurability risk further.

The big red flag is I've been prescribed pain meds (vicodin es) on/off for 2 yrs (more steadily for the last year). I don't take them as prescribed (take LESS and sometimes not at all for up to a month or so at a time, not refilling, but I know that doesn't matter ). I have good days and bad days (stress, weather, excercise are factors. IF social aspects factor into decision... I am a college grad, same job 10+ yrs in eng. software, home office, married, with kids, not overweight, excellent credit rating and non smoker. No family med issues. Both parents still living (in low 70s). Goal was a term life for 25 yrs with about 300k coverage.

 

[NCAgent]

If you just turned 40 and know your MIB will show things that label you "a risk" to an insurer, do you gamble on your broker to find you an Insurer with lenient underwriting? OR, do you wait 5 years expecting medical situation to look better knowing rates will also be a little higher(avoid possible denial now)?

I was in a few auto accidents many yrs ago (not at fault) - had no MAJOR issues 8 years ago, but now (just turned 40) I guess you can say it's caught up to me. Problems with back/neck pain, arthritis. One dr rx fibro (my pcp says no, my MRI's after accident showed degenerative disc, and degenerative joint disease). He wanted me to see specialist to rule out Rheumatoid arthritis and get some other scans. It may sound crazy but I don't want to get any further tests done that lower my insurability risk further.

The big red flag is I've been prescribed pain meds (vicodin es) on/off for 2 yrs (more steadily for the last year). I don't take them as prescribed (take LESS and sometimes not at all for up to a month or so at a time, not refilling, but I know that doesn't matter ). I have good days and bad days (stress, weather, excercise are factors. IF social aspects factor into decision... I am a college grad, same job 10+ yrs in eng. software, home office, married, with kids, not overweight, excellent credit rating and non smoker. No family med issues. Both parents still living (in low 70s). Goal was a term life for 25 yrs with about 300k coverage.

I think you should let an agent shop around for you with the insurance companies. He can easily call an underwriter (the people who finalize the decisions on the rating with the given information) and find out what they think before the app is submitted. This allows a list of what company will handle you in what way and he can choose the companies to use. If you are having some pain issues and they don't have a diagnosis then I might recommend waiting until they make a diagnosis because some companies (a lot, really) will be nervous with something out in the aether like that. But the underwriters should be able to make that decision for you.

If you think you are "settling" for a company then talk to the agent and post online here about it as well. A lot of companies don't really do 25 years, you will probably find more that do 20 and 30 years, so you have a decision to make. Hopefully your agent will talk to you about conversions before the 20-30 year point so it shouldn't matter a whole lot for that duration.

The alternative is that you wait 5 years and there is a possibility that something happens to make you even more uninsurable. You weren't expecting this health issue to happen so we don't know what could happen before. It's just something to keep in mind that *best case scenario* your rates only go up for your age; the worst case scenario is that you can't get really anything affordable at all.

Hope this helps give you a little insight, someone else here should be able to give you some more information as well.

 

[dgoldenz]

You need to work with an independent broker that can shop your history with several companies to get the best offer. Every company will look at your medical history differently and the offers can vary widely.

From your description it sounds like you would probably be rated somewhere between standard rates and table 4, which is about double the cost of standard rates. $300k sounds like a really low amount of coverage for a mother of 4...I'd imagine your income is relatively high too as a software engineer. Have you thought about the impact on your family's lifestyle if they lost your income permanently? Cost to take care of kids? Pay for college expenses? Healthcare expenses?

Here's a good life insurance calculator tool that you might want to play around with, the coverage need might surprise you: LIFE Foundation | Life Insurance Needs Calculator

If you want some help evaluating your options, my website is in the signature line below. We specialize in high-risk life insurance.

 

[Momof4inPA]

Thanks to you both.

Do all brokers know which underwriters would be handling an account so as to get a firm answer on the rating?

(could one UW say "rate her at this level" and another UW from that same company end up with the case and say "denied"). I fear a denial on record. If I were facing that, I wondered how many years would I have to wait to try to apply (staying clear of doctors and meds).

I thought 300k was low too but considering the costs I thought I should start small to see what the price tag would be, then compare at higher value coverages. We have college funds and other investments and savings in place.

I had life coverage before - a small policy that expired and I didn't renew because I had coverage thru a business I worked under. Since that time I am now an independent agent so I'm on my own and my husband's work doesn't extend the life coverage to spouses.

It looks like from your profiles that you don't operate in Southwest PA - thats a bummer!

 

[VolAgent]

Thanks to you both.

Do all brokers know which underwriters would be handling an account so as to get a firm answer on the rating?

(could one UW say "rate her at this level" and another UW from that same company end up with the case and say "denied"). I fear a denial on record. If I were facing that, I wondered how many years would I have to wait to try to apply (staying clear of doctors and meds).

I thought 300k was low too but considering the costs I thought I should start small to see what the price tag would be, then compare at higher value coverages. We have college funds and other investments and savings in place.

I had life coverage before - a small policy that expired and I didn't renew because I had coverage thru a business I worked under. Since that time I am now an independent agent so I'm on my own and my husband's work doesn't extend the life coverage to spouses.

It looks like from your profiles that you don't operate in Southwest PA - thats a bummer!

The underwriters at a company all work from the same guide. Some companies will assign a specific underwriter to all an agent's/broker's business and many won't. Also, the underwriter is always giving you his best guess until he can see the files and the exam results. We can and do show them the recommendation from when we discussed with an underwriter previously, but if something in the notes or exam overrides that, then they have to follow the underwriting guide.

Based on what you've shared, I wouldn't worry too much about a decline. As dgoldenz said, you are most likely going to be offered a table rating. A lot of it will come down to the pain medications and how complainant you are with your doctor's orders.

Also, many people on here are licensed in multiple states. If you are comfortable working over the internet and phone with your agent, you can find a good one here.

 

[dgoldenz]

Thanks to you both.

Do all brokers know which underwriters would be handling an account so as to get a firm answer on the rating?

(could one UW say "rate her at this level" and another UW from that same company end up with the case and say "denied"). I fear a denial on record. If I were facing that, I wondered how many years would I have to wait to try to apply (staying clear of doctors and meds).

I thought 300k was low too but considering the costs I thought I should start small to see what the price tag would be, then compare at higher value coverages. We have college funds and other investments and savings in place.

I had life coverage before - a small policy that expired and I didn't renew because I had coverage thru a business I worked under. Since that time I am now an independent agent so I'm on my own and my husband's work doesn't extend the life coverage to spouses.

It looks like from your profiles that you don't operate in Southwest PA - thats a bummer!

At your age even a table-rated policy would not be that expensive. The most important thing is getting an offer in the first place, then deciding how much coverage you want to pay for after that. When we submit these requests we tell the company the most coverage you would want if approved, you are not obligated to accept the max amount. That way if you tell them you may want $1M but the rates are higher than you want to pay, you can simply opt for $300k. It can be tougher the other way around if you say that you want $300k and then get a good offer and up your request to $1M instead.

If you have or can get a copy of your full medical records, those records can be reviewed on an informal basis to get a very firm offer before ever submitting an application, assuming the exam results come back normal. That way you know exactly what you can expect to end up with, instead of just having a tentative offer subject to a full review of medical records. Non-compliance with doctor's recommendations are going to hurt your insurability, not help it. The companies would much rather see someone complying with doctor's orders and taking pain meds than someone avoiding doctors and not taking their prescribed meds.

A denial will not make you ineligible for coverage, but companies will want to know why you were denied and it will serve as a red flag to further investigate. With the extensive history you mentioned, they are going to check things out pretty thoroughly anyway.

We are located in VA but are licensed in most states, including PA.

 

[briko3]

I agree....apply for what you really need and then adjust based on final underwriting. BTW, I've done this long enough to know that most people don't get healthier and they definitely don't get younger. Chances are the premiums you're looking at now are the cheapest they will ever be again, so there's no reason not to get all you need now. You can always reapply for different covereage if your health improves to get a lower premium later if you think you'll qualify for it.

 

[Momof4inPA]

Thanks. I like the idea of getting a copy of my records. How far back should I request - or how far back do they usually pull for reviews? Would they want physical therapy records too?

I thought starting at a higher coverage would make me "even more of a risk", since the payout would be more.

Wouldn't less coverage = less underwriting?

Some autoimmune things like Rheumatoid Arthritis, Lupus, Fibro are based solely on subjective findings - doctors opinions vary. It's all a guessing game with no real fixes. Hopefull my doctors' records were careful in throwing those terms around. I'll soon find out.

Thanks again - this has been weighing on my mind for weeks/months. I've been afraid to go talk to a broker without knowing the consequences up front.

 

[WinoBlues]

Thanks. I like the idea of getting a copy of my records. How far back should I request - or how far back do they usually pull for reviews? Would they want physical therapy records too?

I thought starting at a higher coverage would make me "even more of a risk", since the payout would be more.

Wouldn't less coverage = less underwriting?

Some autoimmune things like Rheumatoid Arthritis, Lupus, Fibro are based solely on subjective findings - doctors opinions vary. It's all a guessing game with no real fixes. Hopefull my doctors' records were careful in throwing those terms around. I'll soon find out.

Thanks again - this has been weighing on my mind for weeks/months. I've been afraid to go talk to a broker without knowing the consequences up front.

Suggestion - go with one of these guy that actually gave you the advise. You can read what these guys have said and will say. Local guy is going to tell you what he wants you to know. I would pick a number of these guys to be my families agent.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[VolAgent]

Thanks again - this has been weighing on my mind for weeks/months. I've been afraid to go talk to a broker without knowing the consequences up front.

You have already talked to several brokers today. As you can see, we don't bite.

I'd be happy to help you, but David, dgoldenz, really specializes in high risk cases. Give him a call.