This is a shame

[NHB_MMA]

Why is it that you don't advocate 100% term for people?

It may be okay in some situations. I just firmly believe that most everyone should have some permanent insurance for final expenses. This goes far beyond a funeral of around 10K, but includes legal expenses, and possible lost time at work for your survivors dealing with estate issues and grief.

Sure, you might have assets tied up in mutual funds or investments. What if the market is way down or it's not advantageous to liquidate them? Everyone should have some money for final expenses such as funeral expenses and legal expenses with your estate. In addition, some survivors could have lost time at work beyond their paid time off.

I think most everyone should have a minimum of 25K, and 50K wouldn't hurt depending on the situation and costs. If you have no heirs you're concerned about, it's not as applicable, but 90% of the population needs to have some life-long permanent coverage and should not wait to buy that stuff that Alex Trabek and Ed McMahon endorse on TV. The earlier you buy it, the cheaper it is and the dividend growth should exceed inflation and insure you'll have adequate coverage for your entire life, whereas your manageable premium today will be a small premium in 50 years.

 

[STIBROKER]

Again, I think the average person should have about 75% to 90% of their coverage in term, for affordability reasons, but I do not advocate 100% term for people.

Then your hosed...NYL has the highest rate on term.....

 

[James]

Once again, isurance isn't about need, even though we tell ourselves that everyone needs it may it be term or w/l type of a leopard. Fact is no one really needs it, it isn't about need, the need only comes into play once they decide they see value of having it.

So basically the call to sell Term or W/L isn't base on need but a desire or the person seeing value in it. So just do get that straight and understand how one should proceed to understand how too succesfully sell Life Insurance. You can't sell on price nor can you sell on need, you sell on motivation and value, now I understand reading some authors that started with NYL may it be Feldmen or Miesel they seem to understand this concept all too well.

So when one goes out to sell insurance they have several options, you can go out and sell Term and Price or you can sell Value and W/L. Now I choose to sell value and not push price, to do that one has to prospect the people that will likely see value, of course to have value one needs the need and ability to pay for the Value Product. Does that mean I don't or wouldn't sell a Term policy? Of course not, even if thier is an issue about W/L if I did my job they see value on life insurance, so I fall back on term may it be entire coverage or a mix with W/L but that only creates my ability to go back later for my "Free" :wink: review I offer everyone on the book.

 

[James]

NYL and term, compared against other A++ companies NYL is quite competitive! At $1050 it is right in the middle and lot less the MM at $1500 so this is obvious. To sell NYL term you got to sell the value of really strong company.

Once again we see that "VALUE" is the key word.

Ps the figure above is base on me, a 46 yr old in average health for 500 grand and rates ran on term4sale.

TIAA-CREF Life Insurance Company A++ 10-Year Level Term Select (Standard Non-Tobacco) 930.00 Rg gtd

American General Life Insurance Company A++ LTG Ultra 10 (2006) Standard Non-Tobacco 975.00 Rg gtd

Pacific Life Insurance Company A++ PRO-10 - 10 Year Renewable Non-Smoker 1,070.00 Rg gtd

NYLIFE Insurance Company of Arizona A++ Term to Age 90 - 10 Year Level Term Nonsmoker 1,080.00 Rg gtd

Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance A++ TT Level Term 10 Standard Plus Non-Tobacco 1,209.00 Rg gtd

Western-Southern Life Assurance Company A++ 10-Year Guaranteed Level Term Standard Nontobacco 1,405.00 Rg gtd

Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance A++ Term 10G Non-Tobacco 1,550.00 Rg gtd

Ps Ps, is there something we can learn here? It would seem to me that really strong companies charge more then weaker companies. So if you are insuring someone life you got to sell value on a really strong company. As in one that has the strongest position to be around in 40 or more years.

 

[moonlightandmargaritas]

It may be okay in some situations. I just firmly believe that most everyone should have some permanent insurance for final expenses. This goes far beyond a funeral of around 10K, but includes legal expenses, and possible lost time at work for your survivors dealing with estate issues and grief.


Sorry, that intellectual argument doesn't wash. Sounds like you're drinking the NYL/whole life kool-aid. First off, it's not cheaper if you buy it early. It may shock you to find out that everyone pays the same amount for whole life insurance! The difference is how many years you pay the premium! (bet they didn't cover that in training) If I can comfortably pay for final expenses out of my assets (what legal expenses - if I have an Inter Vivos Trust I have no probate expense) why do I need to pay any whole life company a premium.

Best advice for younger people (less than 40)...buy as much term insurance as you can afford. Take a 20 or 30 year premium guarantee if you can. The most important thing is the DEATH BENEFIT not the type of insurance. Keep your insurance and investments SEPARATE. You won't hear it from the insurance company (not as profitable) or agents touting whole life (not as much commission).

I'll reiterate, I've delivered a fair amount of death claims. Not one beneficiary has ever asked me what kind of insurance it was....[/quote]

 

[James]

Nor will the Securities tout studies showing that Fund Managers over time make on average 3.2% return on average. In fact other studies show that Day Traders in general do better then highly compensated fund managers, and the discussion just goes on and on.

Nor will the Securities people tout discussions by the head of the CFP Organization when they suggest that FP'ers today work on a mind set and present plans that just isn't feasible for 95% of the American People.

But what the hell, why bring up these issues when one mindset is to invest in the latest greatest Fund of today but we all know next year or even next month the story going to change.

 

[sman]

NYL and term, compared against other A++ companies NYL is quite competitive! At $1050 it is right in the middle and lot less the MM at $1500 so this is obvious. To sell NYL term you got to sell the value of really strong company.

Once again we see that "VALUE" is the key word.

Ps the figure above is base on me, a 46 yr old in average health for 500 grand and rates ran on term4sale.

TIAA-CREF Life Insurance Company A++ 10-Year Level Term Select (Standard Non-Tobacco) 930.00 Rg gtd

American General Life Insurance Company A++ LTG Ultra 10 (2006) Standard Non-Tobacco 975.00 Rg gtd

Pacific Life Insurance Company A++ PRO-10 - 10 Year Renewable Non-Smoker 1,070.00 Rg gtd

NYLIFE Insurance Company of Arizona A++ Term to Age 90 - 10 Year Level Term Nonsmoker 1,080.00 Rg gtd

Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance A++ TT Level Term 10 Standard Plus Non-Tobacco 1,209.00 Rg gtd

Western-Southern Life Assurance Company A++ 10-Year Guaranteed Level Term Standard Nontobacco 1,405.00 Rg gtd

Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance A++ Term 10G Non-Tobacco 1,550.00 Rg gtd

Ps Ps, is there something we can learn here? It would seem to me that really strong companies charge more then weaker companies. So if you are insuring someone life you got to sell value on a really strong company. As in one that has the strongest position to be around in 40 or more years.

Sorry James, the rate you gave is wrong. NYL is NOT competitive with term insurance. The rate is $1465 for a male age 46 at Standard Non-Tobacco rates. Remember, all the other carriers that showed up in that comparison were for 20 year guarantees.

Another issue is underwriting. It's been my experience (through the admission of some NYL reps I know) that their underwriting isn't the most friendly. When you are independent, if you really want to do a good job for your client, you will get familiar with who is strong in certain areas and not so strong in other areas. While one carrier may approve you at standard, another could very well offer preferred.

In any event, you showed some 10 year rates as well. And they didn't look that great compared to the $1,050 figure you threw out, but that isn't the correct figure for NYL. There is a NYL of Arizona that has a competitive 10 year term among A++ rated carriers. But it isn't once you add A+ rated carriers to the mix.

You can stress VALUE all you want. It CAN mean something for permanent coverage. But has no real bearing on term insurance as long as you are dealing with companies rated A+ or better.

I challenge any of you that sell NYL term insurance to show the rates of other carriers that are rated A+ or better and ask the potential client which one they'd rather pay for.

In the absence of value, cost will be the deciding factor. The only value in term insurance is what it does for the beneficiary. So why pay more than you have to? A few dollars more isn't a big deal, but to ask someone to pay 30%-50% more is just crazy. If you can get them to do it and still sleep at night, more power to you.

 

[NHB_MMA]

Sorry, that intellectual argument doesn't wash.

Silly me. I forgot everyone's situation is exactly the same. :roll:

Sounds like you're drinking the NYL/whole life kool-aid. First off, it's not cheaper if you buy it early. It may shock you to find out that everyone pays the same amount for whole life insurance! The difference is how many years you pay the premium! (bet they didn't cover that in training)

So, while anyone can come up with $10-$15 while they're young, I suppose every senior has a couple hundred a month to drop on WL in their final years? Or does our society have an epidemic of seniors that haven't done such a good job managing their finances. Me thinks the latter. The best time to plan anything financial matters for your future is ASAP, IMHO.

If I can comfortably pay for final expenses out of my assets (what legal expenses - if I have an Inter Vivos Trust I have no probate expense) why do I need to pay any whole life company a premium.

Hmm. I've heard countless people say trusts make sense for only a small percent of the population. I will say I do not know much about them and when they make sense, but only repeating the conventional wisdom I hear out there. Some say a trust is sold and never bought. Either way, your situation does not apply to everyone.

Best advice for younger people (less than 40)...buy as much term insurance as you can afford. Take a 20 or 30 year premium guarantee if you can.

Depends on your age and how long you need it and how much you hate the idea of spending it for nothing (yes, I realize protection is not "nothing" and that all coverage has value). Suppose I'm 25 and need coverage until retirement. Some have said that as expensive as the premium starts to get for 40-year term, you might as well buy WL. That is not to say that the WL is cheaper, but that you reach a point where it becomes expensive enough that given there is a 1% chance it will actually pay out, one might as well consider paying just a little more and having a permanent asset that has some additional benefits. I don't know. It's a way of thinking I've heard, but I couldn't find any sites where I could compare 40 year rates with top-rated companies.

The most important thing is the DEATH BENEFIT not the type of insurance.

Absolutely. The most important thing is that the death needs will be met, regardless of term, WL, UL, VUL, or some combination.

Keep your insurance and investments SEPARATE.

So everything should be in the stock market? There's absolutely no place for a conservative asset to be one piece of the porfolio?

You won't hear it from the insurance company (not as profitable) or agents touting whole life (not as much commission).

I imagine the policies that pay out 1% of the time bring home the bank too, from the company's point of view. As far as being commission motivated, I personally am convinced that one reason so many independents are dead-set against WL is that anyone that is going to buy it is probably going to Northwestern, Mass Mutual, NYL, Guardian, etc. if they are going to buy any substantial amount of it, rather than walk into Smallville Insurance Services. And that's to slam indies, but just the reality of many large WL purchases. It's ultimately whatever the client wants.

I'll reiterate, I've delivered a fair amount of death claims. Not one beneficiary has ever asked me what kind of insurance it was....

You must either sell some final expense or a boatload of term, given how little of it results in a death claim. I thought you sold mostly health insurance if I'm not mistaken?

Shifting gears, I know you sell using the telephone, fax, e-mail, etc. and do not meet face-to-face. Do you do the same thing with life insurance? I imagine the percentages (interested prospects) have to be lower than health insurance aren't they?

 

[sman]

Nor will the Securities tout studies showing that Fund Managers over time make on average 3.2% return on average. In fact other studies show that Day Traders in general do better then highly compensated fund managers, and the discussion just goes on and on.

Boy is that a bunch of garbage. All I ask is when you give a statement like that, you back it up with proof. Let's see the study. I've known several "day traders" and the one common thread, they all lost money. Many of my clients have experienced much greater returns than the "average" you stated. All while using those nasty fund managers.

There is a study out there that was done by Dalbar that speaks to the returns by the average investor being around 3.50%. But the study was about investor behavior and market timing. And it is their behavior that caused their poor returns, not the fund managers. Here's a link.

My job as an advisor is not only to help with the planning process, but also to manage investor behavior. I have to remind the client of the goals from time to time and re-educate them on how the markets will move. And that when the market is down, is not the time to sell. Especially if you're still in the accumulation years. The clients of mine that listened to my advice in the 2000-2002 bear market have been rewarded quite nicely. The one's who didn't, have still done ok, but not near as good as the clients who did.

But what the hell, why bring up these issues when one mindset is to invest in the latest greatest Fund of today but we all know next year or even next month the story going to change.

I don't know of any true advisors who recommend the "latest greatest fund". Most will develop a well balanced portfolio consisting of several asset classes.

 

[NHB_MMA]

Where are you guys getting your rates from? I couldn't find any site today that gave any 40-year term quotes, except for one that will have an agent contact me. How are you all getting the rates from the large captive companies?