This is a shame

[NHB_MMA]

For some reason, my new reply was posted as being before your latest. You should read it.

Something weird happened earlier. It wouldn't let me post, but I seem to be able to access the board here at work.

 

[sman]

I have been surprised to find how competitive my company has been on life insurance in terms of premium. I'm not talking about comparing them to junk found on internet sites, but top rated companies.

I assume you are speaking of the permanent products. Because your term is not competitive at all. NYL (that is who you are with, right?), only has a 5 year term or their 20/10 term which only guarantees the premium for 10 years. A 40-yr old preferred male, can get a true $750k, 20-yr term for $665 per year, while NYL would charge $1,040 for their 20/10 term. The same person could get a 10-year term from a top rated carrier for $400. There are 32 carriers (A+ rated or better) that have cheaper 20-yr terms than NYL's 20/10 term. Even Primerica is less expensive.

Term insurance is a commodity. There really is no reason to overpay for a commodity. You can spin it all you want about the conversion privileges and such, but you'll never convince me that a person should pay more than twice as much for term insurance.

 

[NHB_MMA]

I have been surprised to find how competitive my company has been on life insurance in terms of premium. I'm not talking about comparing them to junk found on internet sites, but top rated companies.

I assume you are speaking of the permanent products.

I personally have compared the WL products to Northwestern and State Farm and found them to be lower in the quotes I ran, although SF had lower rates for children's insurance.

Another agent ran the preferred rates against some companies on an internet site and found NYL to be right in the middle, for one of the term products. He used preferred rates because internet sites often use a bait and switch advertising the lowest rates possible and companies that sell by direct mail or magazine advertisements are even more notorious for it. From what was said at a gathering of agents, the way NYL handles that situation is to suggest completing the app without premium and allow the person to go ahead and apply for the direct insurance. Sometimes even if NYL is a little more the prospect will be disgusted by how low-balled they are and give the business to NYL.

Term insurance is a commodity. There really is no reason to overpay for a commodity. You can spin it all you want about the conversion privileges and such, but you'll never convince me that a person should pay more than twice as much for term insurance

Most of the "consumer gurus" tell you not to buy insurance without some of the bells and whistles. I remember on the other board reading threads about how some of you guys have to battle that stuff ("consumer gurus"). When I say price competitive, I mean falls somewhere in what is reasonable to pay when comparing apples to apples. I talked to an agent yesterday fresh out of training that replaced 50K on the husband and 25K on the wife, giving them 100K on each...and some money back in their pocket.

The indy has a different mentality. Most of you guys sell exclusively on price, might cross-sell a little bit, but tend to specialize in one thing, whereas the other approach is a more comprehensive long-term relationship while working on the entire portfolio, as Melmunch said. I've learned a lot from you guys, but most of you did the same thing I am doing. I don't know of any prominent poster here that up and started the insurance business as an independent. On the old forum, I asked if I should accept the NYL position and even STIBROKER said "yes", even though he has had fun ripping some of my posts since then. 8)

 

[moonlightandmargaritas]

Term is, and should be price-driven. Whole life is a completely different animal.

How is it possible to have a "comprehensive long-term relationship" with a client if all you have to offer is the products of one company?

In fifteen plus years in the insurance business, I have not found an instance where one company has the best product in all situations. Just doesn't happen!

 

[James]

Okay, now you are talking with some sense! Yes, you do not sell price, something that many on this board seem to think its the gospel of sales which just isn't so.

Let me ask you this, does NYL have a LTC Ryder for their W/L or U/L? that is something that will turbo boost a W/L Contract. Usually you'll find a ryder that will pay 2-3% of DB for 2-5 years. Something that will allow you to enter in Asset LTCi for businesses and can give you a foot into a Bank with their customers.

 

[James]

Term is, and should be price-driven. Whole life is a completely different animal.

How is it possible to have a "comprehensive long-term relationship" with a client if all you have to offer is the products of one company?

In fifteen plus years in the insurance business, I have not found an instance where one company has the best product in all situations. Just doesn't happen!

I simply don't agree. Go Figure!

 

[NHB_MMA]

This is actually not true. Of the top 20 most competitive companies in the life market maybe 2 or 3 are not rated at least A+. When I hear that a client has a NYL policy, I rejoice, because the sale is already over.

The "B-" was an exaggeration on my part. I didn't mean to suggest that many of the highly competitive companies are junk status.

I was just suggesting most of those competitors are of lower financial strength and that is true. Didn't AIG fall down to the "B" range sometime back and now they're "A++"? That just doesn't happen with a NYL. First, I would be reluctant to sell for any company that sells online and competes against me directly. Second, I would be less likely to sell for a stock company and would never sell a permanent plan from a stock company, but I'm sure that could get into a whole separate debate.

The guy up the road that owns a thriving nightclub is in "superior" financial condition. So is Bill Gates. There have been some giants out there (particularly stock companies) that have seen their ratings plummet and that doesn't happen with a NYL. I'm sure in the past years some agents replaced NYL policies, on price alone, with dogs like Conseco and Kemper companies touting their top ratings.

I have read many of your posts and you do seem to have integrity, so please don't take this the wrong way, but I think that if you want to be successful with NYL, you need to stop coming here.

First, thanks for the kind words. I can't begin to tell so many of you here how much I have learned from you and how much respect I have for you, even if our business models (at this time) differ.

I realize this is an indy environment. This is where you guys come for advice, to gripe, maybe even boast, etc., because that atmosphere doesn't exist at a local regional office for weekly meetings. People here are of a different mentality and usually sell on price alone (within reason--I don't think you guys whip out the "D" rate companies), focus on one specialty, and do more marketing than networking. I realize you view it differently and maybe I will spend less time here, if that is what I need to do.

Many know what a dilemma it has been for me to decide whether or not to do this, the questions/struggles I'm encountering, and the problems I'll have ahead. Most of you have been there and have had some good advice for me. For example, many said my recruiter would be a real SOB to work for and that has certainly panned out to be true.

If you can't convince yourself that a relationship with you plus a decent product is better for the client than an excellent product with no relationship, then you cannot make it work. That is the entire premise that you are selling, and I am not doubting the validity of it. However, you don't really seem to believe it, and that will be a problem for you.

No, I can believe it, particularly when it comes to permanent life and true investment products. There are 1400 insurance companies out there. I can't be sure I have the absolute best match for a person, but the goal is to give them the best advice and services I can offer and then work over a period of time to continually analyze their goals and results. I would love to offer the most stable company in the industry, the lowest premium out there, the bells and whistles, a lifelong relationships with me, etc., but I am at peace with the fact that no one can guarantee everything I've mentioned.

I'm not knocking what any of you do either. A friend of my parents a couple of towns away has been independent for years and loves it, but has also been highly supportive of my venture. Maybe I'll end up where you guys are, but I think it would be because I can't deal with the culture and expectations, not because of premium differences.

Captive agents can do a lot of good and can be proud of their careers, even if each particular case cannot be objectively reviewed by independents and approved of as the best alternative. You need to swallow that belief, or find a new career.

Again, I feel I need to do the best I can do. I cannot concern myself with what others are doing out there.

What I just can't deal with is steering somebody that has his heart set on investments, has his insurance needs reasonably taken care of, and is looking for a substantial return towards a 4% WL policy over a Roth.

 

[MIBizInsurance]

NBA, you really don't consult on life insurance but as James mentioned you sell it.

Its all about sales.

Now I don't mean in your face hard selling. But make no mistake its sales.

Your selling yourself.

Your selling the point that-
" Yes, Mr. Z you will die and you need some form of Life insurance...."

Now before you or others go picking the above statements apart sure you consult and guide but to get that point you need to "sell" yourself and the idea.

You come here and list negatives about NYL, your manager, training and recruiter then turn the thread into WL discussion. Take the product out of the equation and ask your self if NYL is where you want to be.

Is/has the training been top flight?

Are they teaching you how to SELL the product?

How to Market?

Does your manager help close deals? Do they do so in an ethical manner?

Learn the product on your own time. Read, re-read policies at night.

Understand your in a tuff spot but if their not providing top notch training then at very least hook up with a mentor in the office.



Best of luck.

 

[James]

where are we at?

At this point I'm not sure where we are at? I know you work for NYL, I know or percieve you are having problems with getting ink on paper. Is this about right?

 

[NHB_MMA]

Re: where are we at?

At this point I'm not sure where we are at? I know you work for NYL, I know or percieve you are having problems with getting ink on paper. Is this about right?

I've only talked with a few people. I need to meet my first quota before I quit my full-time job, which is taking up all my time. I'm brainstorming to see what else I can do.