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[tomoverton0123]

Even if that's true, and I don't think it is, the question from medicaid is not "is the cv accessable?". It's "do you own...?".

Contact a Medicaid attorney in your state. Most states do allow it. If cash value is not accessible then it can not be counted as an asset. You are correct about the owner, but many times another trustworthy owner is not available.

 

[jdeasy]

That is because they aren't asking if they have access to it, they are asking if they own any. And yes, the owner is still the owner even if there is an irrevocable beneficiary.

I make no claim to whether or not an irrevocable beneficiary would be sufficient for Medicaid purposes. I don't know, I merely am stating that the owner would not be able to access it without the beneficiary's consent. It does appear that in your state(s), it is not sufficient.

I have spoken to two insurance companies now about this and they say that making the beneficiary irrevocable would have no effect on the owner being able to access the cash value. Maybe they are wrong and you are right? But simple logic would seem to point that they are right.

 

[VolAgent]

I have spoken to two insurance companies now about this and they say that making the beneficiary irrevocable would have no effect on the owner being able to access the cash value. Maybe they are wrong and you are right? But simple logic would seem to point that they are right.

Understanding Life Insurance Beneficiary Designations

Irrevocable Beneficiaries Have a Vested Interest in Life Insurance Benefits

https://repsourcepublic.manulife.co...ERES&CACHEID=c6742780433c29f5b3baf7319e0f5575

Or perhaps they are typical home office employees? I have found most are not near as knowledgeable about insurance as you would think. Although, the link from Mass Mutual suggests companies have different interpretations about what happens if the beneficiary is irrevocable.

 

[GoCubsGo]

I think that a irrevocable beneficiary can prevent the owner form taking a policy loan or any withdrawals of cash value. They just can't do anything to lower the death benefit and that makes sense to me otherwise the designation doesn't hold a lot of value.

 

[FEproducerKen]

That is because they aren't asking if they have access to it, they are asking if they own any. And yes, the owner is still the owner even if there is an irrevocable beneficiary.

I make no claim to whether or not an irrevocable beneficiary would be sufficient for Medicaid purposes. I don't know, I merely am stating that the owner would not be able to access it without the beneficiary's consent. It does appear that in your state(s), it is not sufficient.

It has been my experience in Tennessee and Kentucky that the owner is considered to have access to the cash value regardless if the beneficiary is irrevocable or not. The owner needs to be changed in order to qualify for medicaid. Most states will allow the Funeral Home to be owner. Companies like Settlers have their own trust and the insured transfers all rights and CV to the trust beneficiary and ownership. Beneficiary needs to be irrevocable as well as ownership

 

[VolAgent]

It has been my experience in Tennessee and Kentucky that the owner is considered to have access to the cash value regardless if the beneficiary is irrevocable or not. The owner needs to be changed in order to qualify for medicaid. Most states will allow the Funeral Home to be owner. Companies like Settlers have their own trust and the insured transfers all rights and CV to the trust beneficiary and ownership. Beneficiary needs to be irrevocable as well as ownership

Again, I make no claim as to how Medicaid will handle it. When in doubt I refer you to the golden rule, "The one with the gold makes the rules."

 

[Newby]

That would be incorrect. The cash value cannot be accessed if their is an irrevocable beneficiary without the beneficiary's consent.

Now, whether that is acceptable to Medicaid or not, I haven't a clue.

The ownership AND Beneficiary has to be irrevocably assigned to a funeral home to be removed as an asset for Medicaid UNLESS they are both assigned to someone else 5-or more years before applying for Medicaid.

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It has been my experience in Tennessee and Kentucky that the owner is considered to have access to the cash value regardless if the beneficiary is irrevocable or not. The owner needs to be changed in order to qualify for medicaid. Most states will allow the Funeral Home to be owner. Companies like Settlers have their own trust and the insured transfers all rights and CV to the trust beneficiary and ownership. Beneficiary needs to be irrevocable as well as ownership

That's exactly right. And the 2nd beneficiary has to be the estate and Medicaid gets the estate.

 

[P&cmi]

So what are the options in states that don't allow beneficiary be a funeral home?

 

[rousemark]

Don't know about other states but TN has a five year look back so any transfer restricting CV payable to the insured that took place within 5 years of application can be set aside so anything you do, change of ownership, placing in a trust, etc. would have to be done 5 years prior to their medicaid application..

If you are writing new coverage, it would be best for the insured to never possess ownership. If they are concerned and have in force coverage sometimes the best thing to do would be to cash out the existing policy and write a new policy that has a third party owner if the insured is still insurable.

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So what are the options in states that don't allow beneficiary be a funeral home?

Third party ownership. either an individual they trust or an irrevocable trust.

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The ownership AND Beneficiary has to be irrevocably assigned to a funeral home to be removed as an asset for Medicaid UNLESS they are both assigned to someone else 5-or more years before applying for Medicaid.

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That's exactly right. And the 2nd beneficiary has to be the estate and Medicaid gets the estate.

How often do you use the Settlers/NGL trust?

 

[smokin goose]

Found this in my KY license exam manual. Read the next to last paragraph.