Buying or Renting your Leads?

[Newby]

Are you buying your leads? Or renting them?

It seems to be pretty uniform that new, exclusive direct mail Final Expense leads cost around $30 at most agencies. But it seems like there is a trend for a lot of agencies to now RENT the leads to the agents when they are new and then re-sell them again a few months later. But the going price on rented leads that will be re-sold over and over is also $30. How can that be?

Are the newer younger agents accepting of this trend? I know the old school guys definitely were not. If I paid full price for a lead, I own that lead. If anyone ever re-sold that I would consider it theft. It would be a huge problem.

Do any agents on here work for agencies that re-sell your leads? Is that acceptable?

Under what conditions would it ever be acceptable for an up-line to re-sell a lead that an agent had already paid full price for? Are there any?

Open to hearing all points of view.

 

[Thedude]

Never heard of anyone re selling a couple month old lead for full price? Maybe a couple bucks or something. Who are you talking about?

 

[Lawsonhj1]

The only condition in my feeble opinion is what you negotiate. If it was sold as exclusive and then they re sell the lead they qualify as dirt bags.

Integrity, when you give a little bit of it away you don't have anything left.

 

[shonceman]

Are you buying your leads? Or renting them?

It seems to be pretty uniform that new, exclusive direct mail Final Expense leads cost around $30 at most agencies. But it seems like there is a trend for a lot of agencies to now RENT the leads to the agents when they are new and then re-sell them again a few months later. But the going price on rented leads that will be re-sold over and over is also $30. How can that be?

Are the newer younger agents accepting of this trend? I know the old school guys definitely were not. If I paid full price for a lead, I own that lead. If anyone ever re-sold that I would consider it theft. It would be a huge problem.

Do any agents on here work for agencies that re-sell your leads? Is that acceptable?

Under what conditions would it ever be acceptable for an up-line to re-sell a lead that an agent had already paid full price for? Are there any?

Open to hearing all points of view.

EFES resells leads up to 60 days old for $12, up to 364 days old for $8, etc. Since they're not reselling them at full price like the aforementioned example, what do you think about that @Newby ?

(Full disclosure: I have bought the .25c "moldy" leads from them a couple of times.)

 

[Abrasax]

EFES resells leads up to 60 days old for $12, up to 364 days old for $8, etc. Since they're not reselling them at full price like the aforementioned example, what do you think about that @Newby ?

(Full disclosure: I have bought the .25c "moldy" leads from them a couple of times.)

When I first started with EFES, I bought a bunch of the $2 aged leads in my area. Most of them were about 8 years old. They were in the worst parts of Miami and I door knocked them all. Didn't sell crap but I learned a lot of valuable lessons, and by the time I got set up with Dave, the whole process seemed like a breeze compared to what I started with.

I had better luck with other aged leads that weren't as old. Seems like once it passes a couple years you may as well be cold calling. Try handing someone something they signed 6 years ago, or better yet, their now deceased spouse signed it 6 years ago. See how they look at you.

 

[Newby]

EFES resells leads up to 60 days old for $12, up to 364 days old for $8, etc. Since they're not reselling them at full price like the aforementioned example, what do you think about that @Newby ?

(Full disclosure: I have bought the .25c "moldy" leads from them a couple of times.)

No I'm not talking about leads being re-sold at $30. I don't think anyone does that. I'm talking about agents paying around $30 for leads that will later be re-sold at all.

I feel like I missed a memo or something. I thought it was a huge thing that when agents are buying leads at full price that these leads belong to them and them alone forever. Why would these agents allow their their Upline to resell leads that the AGENT bought and paid for? And the up line sticks the money in his pocket? Gives none of it to the agent who bought and paid for the lead?

I know a few years ago there would have been rioting in the streets over this. But today I'm just hearing agents complaining about it. A few are jumping to different ships over it. But I see no open discussion on the forum or Facebook about it. Is this not a HUGE thing to agents anymore? Is an exclusive lead not worth a lot more than leads that will be resold?

That was my point.

 

[shonceman]

No I'm not talking about leads being re-sold at $30. I don't think anyone does that. I'm talking about agents paying around $30 for leads that will later be re-sold at all.

I feel like I missed a memo or something. I thought it was a huge thing that when agents are buying leads at full price that these leads belong to them and them alone forever. Why would these agents allow their their Upline to resell leads that the AGENT bought and paid for? And the up line sticks the money in his pocket? Gives none of it to the agent who bought and paid for the lead?

I know a few years ago there would have been rioting in the streets over this. But today I'm just hearing agents complaining about it. A few are jumping to different ships over it. But I see no open discussion on the forum or Facebook about it. Is this not a HUGE thing to agents anymore? Is an exclusive lead not worth a lot more than leads that will be resold?

That was my point.

Ok, I misunderstood. (Guess I shouldn't be on the forums after my bedtime!) I get where you're coming from. I'm with you on that. If I paid full price for a lead, I'd be really mad if I back called a lead, only to discover they were already sold by another agent from the same organization off of the same lead!

I kind of understand reselling them after a year or more. After all, if I haven't sold that guy in a year, I probably won't ever. But I don't get reselling them at 0-60 days old! I mean, c'mon, man! Give me a minute! I haven't even gotten hold of some of these people yet! But the IMO apparently doesn't care who ends up selling it. And they net some extra coin on the "aged" lead sale.

Not quite the same, but similar mentality: Back before there was such a thing as price-per-lead, we were all doing mail drops, which the company or IMO sometimes subsidized. I discovered that my upline had a policy that if somebody got better than 2% return on a mailing (which wasn't that unusual in those days) he would hold back the "extra" leads and give them to other agents that were high producers. That always stuck in my craw! Later I discovered I could do my own mailings, and thus be in complete control of the resulting leads, so that's what I did.

 

[Life Hawk]

No I'm not talking about leads being re-sold at $30. I don't think anyone does that. I'm talking about agents paying around $30 for leads that will later be re-sold at all.

I feel like I missed a memo or something. I thought it was a huge thing that when agents are buying leads at full price that these leads belong to them and them alone forever. Why would these agents allow their their Upline to resell leads that the AGENT bought and paid for? And the up line sticks the money in his pocket? Gives none of it to the agent who bought and paid for the lead?

I know a few years ago there would have been rioting in the streets over this. But today I'm just hearing agents complaining about it. A few are jumping to different ships over it. But I see no open discussion on the forum or Facebook about it. Is this not a HUGE thing to agents anymore? Is an exclusive lead not worth a lot more than leads that will be resold?

That was my point.

And the assumption... we just purchased exclusive leads that may be sold later.

But wait... is it that we just purchased leads that someone else just bought?

The economics of it all is that leads are a finite source... this means that in order to continue to profit (how much I wonder) the lead producer, IMO, FMO, Ins Company needs to resale in order to keep in the lead business and profit.

As the consumer in this case I would never be OK with you getting leads I just purchased, or getting them after I've purchased them... however, as a purchaser of leads I wouldn't mind getting my hand on some of yours because I know how I sale... and if you are a poor agent, you may not have followed up on those leads or don't know how to sale, in which case I will.

This is referred to as "Double Speak"...

I would assume a better way of doing business would be to directly purchase the leads and cut out the middle man.

Hard to riot when you have to go through an IMO, ect. to even get a contract with companies. Killing the parasite might injure the host.

 

[Thedude]

I personally don't care but I think it's up to that individual agent. As long as they are aware their leads are being re sold 6 months to a year later it's sort of on them. I'm not typically going to go back to 6 month old leads so if someone can make money off that lead so be it.

I think the cost from that "re sold" lead comes from the distribution of it...definitely should be much much cheaper than the original lead.

I know nearly every person in our organization pretty well and I would be fine with them re buying leads I've bought so I think that has something to do with it. If you just had random agents all over the place and none of them knew each other yeah that shit wouldn't fly.

 

[shonceman]

And the assumption... we just purchased exclusive leads that may be sold later.

But wait... is it that we just purchased leads that someone else just bought?

The economics of it all is that leads are a finite source... this means that in order to continue to profit (how much I wonder) the lead producer, IMO, FMO, Ins Company needs to resale in order to keep in the lead business and profit.

As the consumer in this case I would never be OK with you getting leads I just purchased, or getting them after I've purchased them... however, as a purchaser of leads I wouldn't mind getting my hand on some of yours because I know how I sale... and if you are a poor agent, you may not have followed up on those leads or don't know how to sale, in which case I will.

This is referred to as "Double Speak"...

I would assume a better way of doing business would be to directly purchase the leads and cut out the middle man.

Hard to riot when you have to go through an IMO, ect. to even get a contract with companies. Killing the parasite might injure the host.

That's partly why I like having my contracts direct with the carrier if possible, although that's mostly impossible these days. So, I spread my contracts across a few IMO's. I'm a true independent, and pretty set against becoming captive with any company or IMO, especially just to save a few bucks on leads. I prefer to self generate and stay in control of the lead and the who, what when, where, why, and how the lead is sold, even if it costs me a bit more.