Cold Calling Final Expense

[jdeasy]

When the people say they are all set. Ask them if the policy that they own is in a Trust, because if it isn't you are throwing your money away. Most final expense policies are not sold with a Funeral Trust as the owner. Settlers life sells their policies in a Funeral Trust. Check out the Medicaid recovery Act, google it. If a person goes into a nursing home and Medicaid pays for it, upon their death Medicaid will recover their cost from all assets of this person and one of the assets that will be recovered is the death benefit of their policy unless it is in a Funeral Trust!

You keep posting this as fact and you are just wrong on this. First, Settlers doesn't always issue as a trust and other companies will doa trust as well. Second, if a person is in a nursing home on mediciad or not in a nursing home on medicaid, the death benefit will not go to medicaid. The part over the cost of the funeral could, but never before the funeral is paid.

There are also other ways to handle that and those ways won't put the policy holder in jeopardy as you could by just putting people in a trust blindly.

It has to be an irrovable trust in order to satisfy medicaid and they have to get on medicaid with 30 days of taking the trust. If they don't go on medicaid within 30 days you have put the person in an irrevocable trust as far as the insurance company is concerned, but not to satisfy medicaid. Better hope you have good E and O if you are going to continue to just put everyone into a trust.

newby is an expert on this stuff and he explained it much better in another thread. Apparently you didn't see it or you ignored it.


Here is what Newby had to say;Monumental also has a funeral trust in some states. As you probably know, you should not assign the policies to the funeral trusts UNLESS the applicant is going on Medicaid within 30 days.

In the case of Monumental and Settlers, most people who will qualify for Medicaid within 30 days will not qualify for the policy.

The funeral trusts on final expense policies will actually prohibit the policy from being used to pay funeral expenses at many funeral homes. It works fine on policies that pay claims within 24 hours without a death certificate. These companies would include ForeThought, NGL, Lincoln Heritage and most Preneed funeral policies.

On final expense policies that only settle a claim after they receive a certified death certificate, the policy has to be assignable in order for most funeral homes to accept it. If it is assigned to a funeral trust, it is now unassignable.

Also if you sell a policy today and the person applies for Medicaid three years from now, Medicaid will require a NEW irrevocable assignment since your original one will not be recognized in many states since the person did not qualify for Medicaid within 30 days of the assignment. So now you have a policy that the insurance company considers irrevocable but the state Medicaid office does not. This causes a lot of confusion and problems for the family trying to get mom approved for Medicaid.

With NGL and Settlers you have the Estate Planning Trust option for families who don't need Medicaid in the forseeable future. This makes more sense BUT can cause a problem IF the family needs to file for Medicaid within the first 5 years. However if the policy is over the limit ($15,000 in most states, $10,000 in some) by even one dollar, NONE of the policy value from the Estate Trust can be protected by the funeral Trust. Also there can be no riders on the policy (accidental death, child rider, etc.) or the policy can not qualify.

The better option if the policy is supposed to be used for funeral expenses is to use the RIDERS that Settlers, Monumental and others have to take the living benefit payment and fund a funeral Preneed or funeral trust at the time they go into a nursing home OR get diagnosed with a terminal illness. This eliminates the cash value of the policy and eliminates the policy from counting as a resource for Medicaid qualification.

 

[Newby]

When the people say they are all set. Ask them if the policy that they own is in a Trust, because if it isn't you are throwing your money away. Most final expense policies are not sold with a Funeral Trust as the owner. Settlers life sells their policies in a Funeral Trust. Check out the Medicaid recovery Act, google it. If a person goes into a nursing home and Medicaid pays for it, upon their death Medicaid will recover their cost from all assets of this person and one of the assets that will be recovered is the death benefit of their policy unless it is in a Funeral Trust!

I agree with the others that you are sounding like a broken record. You're using a funeral trust assignment as a sales gimmick and you don't even understand what you're doing.

I don't know what state you're in but you better learn the laws about funeral trust assignments in each state you sell in. Each state is completely different.

Some states strictly forbid agents from slamming insurance policies into funeral trusts UNLESS the person is on Medicaid. There is no other advantage to it for the consumer. You are having them sign away policy rights (the ability to use cash values, change beneficiary, or change ownership) and getting NOTHING in return.

The laws on funeral trust assignments are clear in these states. There is NO lookback period for a REASON. The consumer is not to give up these policy rights UNTIL they have to and that is why it's allowed to do it WHEN they apply for Medicaid.
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You keep posting this as fact and you are just wrong on this. First, Settlers doesn't always issue as a trust and other companies will doa trust as well. Second, if a person is in a nursing home on mediciad or not in a nursing home on medicaid, the death benefit will not go to medicaid. The part over the cost of the funeral could, but never before the funeral is paid.

Even policies that are assigned to a funeral trust work this way. The beneficiary MUST be the estate for any excess money. If the insured has been on Medicaid assistance, the estate will ALWAYS go to Medicaid. The excess money will NOT go to the family.

That's why it's not advisable to overfund a funeral trust.

But I know of at least one marketer that tells EVERONE to put $15,000 in them even if the person wants to be cremated. BAD advice for the consumer. Good for the huckster agent though.

 

[Biggin]

The only "true" way (in Michigan, at least) to keep Medicaid's mitts off your clients assets is to have a good Attorney draw up an Irrevocable trust and make the trust the owner of the life insurance. You can do that with most policies. You can also move other assets into the irrevocable trust to protect against Medicaid liquidating it. You will have a 5 year lookback and you need to assign a 3rd party trustee and the trust is assigned it's own tax ID number. But, yeah, if you don't care about facts and being a professional go ahead and write a SIWL policy and tell them that it comes with a bag of spoofle dust that turns it into an irrevocable trust and a TOLI.

 

[Hopwood04]

Ok first of all, I realize that Settlers does not issue ALL of their policies in a Funeral trust. Secondly, a person does not have to be 30 days away from being on Medicaid to buy a policy that is owned by a Funeral Trust. Here in Illinois the limit is $4,000 death benefit in a funeral trust so the the person accusing me of slamming, I hardly think so. I always offer the Funeral Trust in addition to what they have just in case Medicaid does recover and nothing is left. At least they will know that $4,000 will be available if nothing else. Thirdly, Monumental and several other companies do offer a funeral trust, however last time I checked a person had to have a lump sum cash to put into the trust. Settlers is different, the client can pay a monthly premium just like buying a final expense policy. Lastly, a funeral trust is an Irrevocable Trust!

You say "There is no other advantage to it for the consumer. You are having them sign away policy rights (the ability to use cash values, change beneficiary, or change ownership) and getting NOTHING in return. "

There absolutely is an advantage of putting the policy in a Funeral Trust, it guarantees the client that there will be money left behind to pay for at least a portion of their funeral instead of nothing. You say, you are having them sign away policy rights (the ability to use cash values, change beneficiary, or change ownership) and getting NOTHING in return. "

We are talking about final expense policies (very little cash accumulation if any) why would they want to change the beneficiary, it is set up to pay for a funeral! If they want some one else to get the death benefit, the should buy it in hopes that Medicaid doesn't recover it.

 

[Newby]

Hop wood, I'm going to type slowly so you can follow.

The Funeral Trust has NO lookback for Medicaid. ZERO.

There is a reason for that.

Most states have laws that you (the insurance agent) are NOT to assign the insurance policy to the funeral trust UNLESS they are either currently ON Medicaid or are applying for MEDICAID within 30 days.

If you assign someone's policy to a funeral trust the MAY never go on Medicaid, you are taking policy rights away from them and you are giving them NOTHING in return. Because they can ALWAYS assign the policy to a funeral trust in the future IF they need to.

Yea I know the insurance company doesn't require proof that the person is going on Medicaid to assign the trust...but you better check with Illinois laws. Each state is different. But most states look at what you're doing as an insurance agent that is slamming people into an insurance contract that they can't get out of for YOUR benefit NOT the consumers.

Monumental definitely does allow their FE multi-pay policies to be assigned to their funeral trust. You don't hear of it because they don't allow agents to use it for a sales gimmick who don't know what they are doing.

NGL also has multi pay funeral trusts. The commissions are VERY low on it so the FMOs don't even tell their agents about it.

Settlers is a top quality company. They are easy to sell for the death benefit and excellent policy features. They don't need gimmicks. Don't pollute their reputation by focusing on the wrong things.

 

[hamben]

I no this is off topic but have to share,

Agents stay away from buying pre set appointments with Senior Marketing out of Allen Texas.
This is there idea of a quality set appointment. I use programs from time to time to see if they will help agents and this one is the biggest joke I ever wasted money on. This is the only appointment they were able to set in 2 weeks. Obviously when I showed up to talk with the client she had no idea why I was there. I truly felt sorry for her being slammed by this company. Please anyone who watches the video send the link to any other agents they no. It's the only way we can put companies that prey on agents out of business. Hell I've listed to it several times and I can't understand what the hell he is saying!
It's funny except I did piss away a $1,000 on the damn thing. Can't wait to see the other 30 appointments they are supposed to get. At the rate of on every 2 weeks they should be done setting by 2013..
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What a JOKE.

 

[Hopwood04]

Newby, you are 100% wrong. A perfectly health person who is not on Medicaid or going on medicaid can buy a policy with a Funeral Trust as the owner. The states put caps on the death benefit so that it can not be abused. In Illinois $4,000 is the cap. One can hardly slam policies with such a low cap! I never talk anyone out to the policy they have only to add too. Please quit trying to prove me wrong,get your facts straight! I checked with my local medicaid office today and spoke to a elder law attorney at lunch today and they both verified that you are wrong. The 30 day rule might be in your state but not in Illinois. I don't know about other insurance companies but Settlers does not reduce commission. Drop the subject!

 

[Newby]

Newby, you are 100% wrong. A perfectly health person who is not on Medicaid or going on medicaid can buy a policy with a Funeral Trust as the owner. The states put caps on the death benefit so that it can not be abused. In Illinois $4,000 is the cap. One can hardly slam policies with such a low cap! I never talk anyone out to the policy they have only to add too. Please quit trying to prove me wrong,get your facts straight! I checked with my local medicaid office today and spoke to a elder law attorney at lunch today and they both verified that you are wrong. The 30 day rule might be in your state but not in Illinois. I don't know about other insurance companies but Settlers does not reduce commission. Drop the subject!

I'll just leave it that YOU are an ***. Do what you want to your clients. You don't even understand the basics of what you are doing.
It's also kind of riduculas that you would persist in selling $4,000 policies to people who aren't on Medicaid when you could do the job correctly and sell them a meaningful amount.
I never said Settlers lowers commissions. I said NGL pays a low commission on their multi pay Funeral Trust policies. That's why not many FMOs promote them to agents.

 

[Hopwood04]

Once again you are wrong. NGL pays a 15% commission, it is not reduced. Also, there is no need for personal attacks. You must need to get on some sort of anger management program. You are wrong about the Medicaid thing! Why do you want to wait until they go onto Medicaid to try to sell something that won't get issued or they can't afford to pay for at that time. When you sell a funeral trust to an individual when they are healthy you are doing them a service! You are guaranteeing them that if they do go on Medicaid that this policy will be there for them when they die. I understand that they are losing their rights to change beneficiaries but that is ok because this policy is for their burial! I can't tell you how many people I talk to don't want to leave the money to their kids or a relative because they can't guarantee that they will be buried the way they want to be. In the final expense market too many of these individuals will just take the money, put the so called loved one away cheaply (not the way they wanted to be) and take the rest of the money. By assigning the policy to the Funeral home via Funeral Trust, these individuals can guarantee that they will get put away the way they want to. I wish you would stop reading into they way I do things or things I say. You keep stating things that are not true. You do not know me or how I sell. I am a very ethical agent and pride myself in this. I do a very good job for my clients and make sure they understand what they are buying and why they are buying it.

 

[theinsuranceman]

I agree! When Newby disagrees with someone on this forum he...and a few others....like to bash people in a very unprofessional way. Must be a regional thing. And he doesn't realize that sometimes he's just plain old wrong. (Newby I'm only halfway serious, which means I'm halfway joking with you).