Colorado Bankers (CB Life)...

[Newby]

The main issue is on the regulatory side.

NC DOI failed to see this in the supposed audits they perform of insurance carriers. It was massive fraud. Not a normal carrier failure.

SGA was not made for a carrier that had all the assets stolen by the CEO... right under the nose of the regulators who very easily should have seen this had they done their job correctly.

If anyone should be sued here, it's the NC DOI.

Yes but every case is like that. Wouldn’t it be a better industry if there was s REAL guarantee fund? That was really designed to work?
How bad would it be if we had to give up a little commission? Like 5% between the agents, FMOs, etc. And the carriers had to give up just a bit. But there was real funding to back up the failed company. And the money was available fast!
The consumers should never be put on hold. Pay them their money out of the real fund and let the carrier/ courts/ fund sort it out as the criminal case gets decided.
Wouldn’t that be worth it?

 

[Tahoe Ray]

Yes but every case is like that. Wouldn’t it be a better industry if there was s REAL guarantee fund? That was really designed to work?
How bad would it be if we had to give up a little commission? Like 5% between the agents, FMOs, etc. And the carriers had to give up just a bit. But there was real funding to back up the failed company. And the money was available fast!
The consumers should never be put on hold. Pay them their money out of the real fund and let the carrier/ courts/ fund sort it out as the criminal case gets decided.
Wouldn’t that be worth it?

Or they can just do what NY does and force carriers to post domestic statutory reserves instead of offshore economic reserves.

That would weed out a lot of the weaker carriers right there.

 

[scagnt83]

Yes but every case is like that. Wouldn’t it be a better industry if there was s REAL guarantee fund? That was really designed to work?
How bad would it be if we had to give up a little commission? Like 5% between the agents, FMOs, etc. And the carriers had to give up just a bit. But there was real funding to back up the failed company. And the money was available fast!
The consumers should never be put on hold. Pay them their money out of the real fund and let the carrier/ courts/ fund sort it out as the criminal case gets decided.
Wouldn’t that be worth it?

I agree that it would be beneficial to have an actual fund. Fund pays at least partial claims. Then carriers assessments can replenish the fund.

I disagree that this is like every other case.

You do have more experience seeing and experiencing insolvencies than I do... have you ever seen reimbursements take this long to payout with prior carriers?

This has criminal proceedings that had essentially been holding up the entire reimbursement process. I've never seen that before. And it seems like a regulatory bureaucratic issue that could be written out of the regs.

Not that the normal process is quick, or perfect. But this does seem like a unique event in industry history.

 

[scagnt83]

Or they can just do what NY does and force carriers to post domestic statutory reserves instead of offshore economic reserves.

That would weed out a lot of the weaker carriers right there.

You mean half the life/annuity market

 

[ccwpc]

Oklahoma state guarantee folks didn’t have much information…yes we will get a packet from CBL to determine our options… she did say im the only one in Oklahoma over the 300k guarantee… she said ive lost out on the rest

There is a section that addresses excess policyholders in the liquidation order faq.

https://cblife.com/CBL_Forms/CBL_FAQs_Liquidation_Order_8_27_24.pdf

 

[Allen Trent]

I agree that it would be beneficial to have an actual fund. Fund pays at least partial claims. Then carriers assessments can replenish the fund.

I disagree that this is like every other case.

You do have more experience seeing and experiencing insolvencies than I do... have you ever seen reimbursements take this long to payout with prior carriers?

This has criminal proceedings that had essentially been holding up the entire reimbursement process. I've never seen that before. And it seems like a regulatory bureaucratic issue that could be written out of the regs.

Not that the normal process is quick, or perfect. But this does seem like a unique event in industry history.

Just saw a document where Michigan carriers alone will be assessed $100,000,000 annuity & $4M Life for Colorado Bankers carriers .......in Michigan alone. Wowza.

I wonder how much the major marketshare carriers like Athene or JNL, etc that operate in 50 states will be assessed. How much of their investments will they have to sell off to raise the cash to send in to the Guaranty Association

 

[Tahoe Ray]

Just saw a document where Michigan carriers alone will be assessed $100,000,000 annuity & $4M Life for Colorado Bankers carriers .......in Michigan alone. Wowza.

I wonder how much the major marketshare carriers like Athene or JNL, etc that operate in 50 states will be assessed. How much of their investments will they have to sell off to raise the cash to send in to the Guaranty Association

I don't think it will be that crazy.

Athene does more sales in a month than all of the assets of CB.

 

[Allen Trent]

I don't think it will be that crazy.

Athene does more sales in a month than all of the assets of CB.

Yeah, but they don't hold a ton of liquid cash as the annuities they sell require sizeable reserves & then the premiums ate invested in bonds/mortgages, etc.

Luckily, they likely have had ample warning that the eventual assessments were coming

 

[Newby]

I agree that it would be beneficial to have an actual fund. Fund pays at least partial claims. Then carriers assessments can replenish the fund.

I disagree that this is like every other case.

You do have more experience seeing and experiencing insolvencies than I do... have you ever seen reimbursements take this long to payout with prior carriers?

This has criminal proceedings that had essentially been holding up the entire reimbursement process. I've never seen that before. And it seems like a regulatory bureaucratic issue that could be written out of the regs.

Not that the normal process is quick, or perfect. But this does seem like a unique event in industry history.

That case where Doug Cassidy embezzled 500 million from the Preneed insurance company he owned was very similar to this one with Colorado Bankers. They were completely asleep at the wheel to not catch that one years before they did. It was obvious.

 

[rats0001]

Looked at the last rehabilitation report as of mar 31 2024. I'm no expert in insurance accounting but colorado bankers has non admitted assets(no good) of 1,128,000,000. Don't forget southland too, but only about 15% the size as colorado.