Daviso Insurance Group. Any Thoughts?

[NSRH]

You're not too good at reading comprehension, are you moron?

The worker bees at NorthStar/VRG are paid commissions directly by Pioneer American, like any other independent agents. However, they are required to adhere to a strict 45-50 hour/week schedule. Their lunch breaks are micromanaged. These "independent contractors" are required to show up at the call center at 7:30 AM to hear their cult leader's Podcast. A friend of mine was terminated by them earlier this year because he refused to show up for this kindergarten pep rally. Pioneer American then immediately terminated him. NorthStar gets to keep any renewals his sales generate, but he gets the massive chargebacks on business that lapses. A "heads we win, tails you lose" sort of arrangement.

Please explain to me how this isn't anything but a crooked organization for the producing agent.

Tom,

Although North Star was your IMO, your direct upline was a contracted call center independently run within our platform. I'm sorry to hear about your ("friends") experience, but it is apparent that our call center partner felt the need to micro manage you, likely because you're closing ratio was unacceptable, or you failed to show up to receive live calls at the time you specified. I can investigate further if you'd like.

Either way, your private messages to me were very professional and respectful, I'm a little taken back by the change of tone now that you are posting publicly.

Maybe it's was your erratic behaviour that ultimately lead to your termination. Who knows, I can ask on your behalf if you'd like.

 

[sshafran]

it is apparent that our call center partner felt the need to micro manage you

Funny, if I don't sell for a carrier, they don't start to micro-manage me to sell more. Why? Because I'm an Independent Contractor. Sure, I can be terminated for non-production, but they can't come to my office and force me to make a sales call (or even *strongly encourage* as if I'm their employee).

The problem with these call center ideas (and, I'll admit that I'm assuming a little here about your setup) is that they treat 1099 contractors as W2 employees.

Nothing wrong with starting a call center and hiring W2 agents - then control them all you want.

Why not hire them as W2 employees?

Oh, yeah. That's right. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

----------

Call centers with 1099 contractors act as if this distinction does not exist.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/smal...ependent-contractor-self-employed-or-employee

 

[Agentguy5]

NorthStar gets to keep any renewals his sales generate, but he gets the massive chargebacks on business that lapses. A "heads we win, tails you lose" sort of arrangement.

Is this true? What about months 10,11, and 12?

 

[NSRH]

Funny, if I don't sell for a carrier, they don't start to micro-manage me to sell more. Why? Because I'm an Independent Contractor. Sure, I can be terminated for non-production, but they can't come to my office and force me to make a sales call (or even *strongly encourage* as if I'm their employee).

The problem with these call center ideas (and, I'll admit that I'm assuming a little here about your setup) is that they treat 1099 contractors as W2 employees.

Nothing wrong with starting a call center and hiring W2 agents - then control them all you want.

Why not hire them as W2 employees?

Oh, yeah. That's right. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

----------

Call centers with 1099 contractors act as if this distinction does not exist.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/smal...ependent-contractor-self-employed-or-employee

Some call centers in our network do have their agents LOA, and have them on payroll.

At the home office in St Louis, agents pay for office space and work independently.

At home agents get higher contracts, and renewals, but pay for startup costs.

So there are a number of business models all working under the North Star umbrella with the same leads.

 

[Surancedawg]

Tom,

Although North Star was your IMO, your direct upline was a contracted call center independently run within our platform. I'm sorry to hear about your ("friends") experience, but it is apparent that our call center partner felt the need to micro manage you, likely because you're closing ratio was unacceptable, or you failed to show up to receive live calls at the time you specified. I can investigate further if you'd like.

Either way, your private messages to me were very professional and respectful, I'm a little taken back by the change of tone now that you are posting publicly.

Maybe it's was your erratic behaviour that ultimately lead to your termination. Who knows, I can ask on your behalf if you'd like.

My sales were not a problem. Vince himself told me I was a solid phone sales producer. I left after 3 months, not because of any "erratic behavior" - that is a slanderous load of horsesh*t and you know it - I left because I got tired of going a week or two at a time without getting paid, even though I was still selling. The persistency on that business is garbage, and you know it Ramiz.

 

[mbiallas]

My sales were not a problem. Vince himself told me I was a solid phone sales producer. I left after 3 months, not because of any "erratic behavior" - that is a slanderous load of horsesh*t and you know it - I left because I got tired of going a week or two at a time without getting paid, even though I was still selling. The persistency on that business is garbage, and you know it Ramiz.

You are spot on here. The quality of business is an absolute joke. Vince told me to expect 70% placement and 70% persistency. I'm no mathematician but that leaves you with roughly 50% of your business after a year. Mine turned out to be slightly worse than this.

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Is this true? What about months 10,11, and 12?

Yes how does this work? Do the month 10, 11 and 12 commissions offset those massive chargebacks? I am guessing not. Once you leave they cut off your ability to log on to the carrier website so you don't have access to any statements. Then they send folks to collections and place vectors ruining both your credit and ability to stay in this business...meanwhile the upline laughs all the way to the bank.

 

[chasejordan1]

Some call centers in our network do have their agents LOA, and have them on payroll.

At the home office in St Louis, agents pay for office space and work independently.

At home agents get higher contracts, and renewals, but pay for startup costs.

So there are a number of business models all working under the North Star umbrella with the same leads.

Illegal! If you give them a phone script they are employees. If you give them anything as a "guideline" they are employees. Yes, I know you haven't had a problem. YET. It is cool I understand it is cheaper to have them as 1099, but if they go to your office they are employees. Inside Sales IS 100% W-2, this isn't real-estate boys. I know your attorney "guy" said it is fine, but if you get audited someday who you gonna pay. Your attorney.

 

[sshafran]

Illegal! If you give them a phone script they are employees. If you give them anything as a "guideline" they are employees. Yes, I know you haven't had a problem. YET. It is cool I understand it is cheaper to have them as 1099, but if they go to your office they are employees. Inside Sales IS 100% W-2, this isn't real-estate boys. I know your attorney "guy" said it is fine, but if you get audited someday who you gonna pay. Your attorney.

The biggest problem they'll run into is setting the "independent contractor's" schedule. The meetings... the "why weren't you here at 8:00am?" conversations...

 

[bboman23]

Is this true? What about months 10,11, and 12?

I think the agent would have to be terminated "for cause" to lose the renewals/backend pay. Unless the contract he signed says differently. Or if he rolled up debt, then the up line that pays the debt would take over that remaining money.

So unless the contract states differently, he would be ok if not terminated for cause.

 

[Agentguy5]

I think the agent would have to be terminated "for cause" to lose the renewals/backend pay. Unless the contract he signed says differently. Or if he rolled up debt, then the up line that pays the debt would take over that remaining money.

So unless the contract states differently, he would be ok if not terminated for cause.

Apparently they do get months 10-12 but NO renewals.

The idea is for the debt to roll up to the agent and the renewals to go to the IMO. All part of their give and take deal.

This is why I always suggest that agents read what they are signing as a lot of agents fall into the notion of, "well, I've got nothing to lose so I might as well give it a shot".