EV Takes 4 Days to Charge

[wln417]

The government doesn't give a sh*t about us.

Which government doesn't care about us? And who do you define as "us"?

Let me give you just a few examples where government cares about us:

Declaration of Independence
US Constitution
Social Security
Medicare
PPACA
FEMA
EITC
SEC
FBI
CIA
All these "regulations" and red tape people scream about are meant to protect "us"

Listen, they might not always get it right. The execution may be poor sometimes. But to make a blanket statement like that is just . . .

 

[goillini52]

Which government doesn't care about us? And who do you define as "us"?

Let me give you just a few examples where government cares about us:

Declaration of Independence
US Constitution
Social Security
Medicare
PPACA
FEMA
EITC
SEC
FBI
CIA
All these "regulations" and red tape people scream about are meant to protect "us"

Listen, they might not always get it right. The execution may be poor sometimes. But to make a blanket statement like that is just . . .

FBI...CIA..., are you kidding me?

 

[whatyouwantfinally]

Which government doesn't care about us? And who do you define as "us"?

Let me give you just a few examples where government cares about us:

Declaration of Independence
US Constitution
Social Security
Medicare
PPACA
FEMA
EITC
SEC
FBI
CIA
All these "regulations" and red tape people scream about are meant to protect "us"

Listen, they might not always get it right. The execution may be poor sometimes. But to make a blanket statement like that is just . . .

The blanket statement is correct. The Constitution is rules the government has to follow because it was obvious early on the government could/would do bad things.

Our government is controlled/run by political parties. Members of political parties, insofar as what they do as political actors, care ONLY about winning elections. That's it. No exceptions. If an action/policy is believed by party members to be BAD for Americans but GOOD for their electoral prospects, they will support/do it.

This seems extreme, even counter-intuitive to some. But it isn't. And until a strong majority of Americans accept it, it will not change.

 

[scagnt83]

You posted a bunch of propaganda links that consider "subsidies" to be things like "health and environmental damages," normal tax deductions typical to all industries, accounting practices, etc.

Those aren't "direct subsidies." Direct subsidies are when the government gives you $.

Umm... no. Subsidies are either direct money being given or tax breaks not available to all businesses.

Again, you are welcome to post references with facts.

And the fossil fuel industry most certainly receives indirect subsidies that are not available to all businesses. You should research the subject.

- Domestic Manufacturing Deduction (intended for manufacturers but the O&G lobby got them included)

- MLPs (master limited partnership), only available to certain industries... mainly used by fossil fuel. (specifically not available to renewable energy companies)

- Exploration deductions for investors (allows investments into MLPs to be tax deducted by up to 90% of the invested amount... plus quarterly dividends are completely tax free)

- LIFO accounting. Only benefits a few industries. And artificially inflates the price of gas when a fossil fuel company uses it.

Thats just 4 off the top of my head when it comes to indirect subsidies not available to all US businesses.

If you think the US does not pay billions a year in subsidies to the oil and gas industry... you are living in a fantasy world. Its a fact.

 

[scagnt83]

FBI...CIA..., are you kidding me?

If you had any idea what those patriots do for you on a daily basis. You would be on your knees thanking them.

People do not join the CIA for personal gain, or glory. Those stars on the wall are nameless for a reason.

 

[whatyouwantfinally]

Umm... no. Subsidies are either direct money being given or tax breaks not available to all businesses.

You said: "apx $20 billion a year in direct subsidies to oil/gas/coal.

Not counting the indirect subsidies... such as huge tax breaks for investors in exploration LLPs, etc."

You made the distinction. Since it seems you're abandoning the "direct subsidies," (as you should because it's false)...
.

And the fossil fuel industry most certainly receives indirect subsidies that are not available to all businesses. You should research the subject.

- Domestic Manufacturing Deduction (intended for manufacturers but the O&G lobby got them included)

That's available to essentially any business that makes, extracts, grows, improves, develops, etc. anything domestically. What?

- MLPs (master limited partnership), only available to certain industries... mainly used by fossil fuel. (specifically not available to renewable energy companies)

That's not a subsidy any more than, say, an S-Corp is a subsidy. Ridiculous.

- Exploration deductions for investors (allows investments into MLPs to be tax deducted by up to 90% of the invested amount... plus quarterly dividends are completely tax free)

Again, massive reach. The tax benefits of a particular business entity aren't a subsidy in any way.

- LIFO accounting. Only benefits a few industries. And artificially inflates the price of gas when a fossil fuel company uses it.

Accepted accounting methods (available to all businesses) aren't a subsidy, and LIFO is used far beyond fossil fuel companies.

-Thats just 4 off the top of my head when it comes to indirect subsidies not available to all US businesses.

If you think the US does not pay billions a year in subsidies to the oil and gas industry... you are living in a fantasy world. Its a fact.

So, from what you've given so far, the totality of these "subsidies" are 4 examples that aren't subsidies, even indirectly.

The US doesn't pay billions a year in subsidies to the oil and gas industry. You're literally living in a fantasy world. It's a fact.

 

[scagnt83]

That's not a subsidy any more than, say, an S-Corp is a subsidy. Ridiculous.

1. Any business in the US can be an S-Corp. MLPs are limited to just certain industries. O&G makes up 2/3 of all MLPs.

2. MLPs provide much more tax benefit than a S-corp does.

 

[scagnt83]

Again, massive reach. The tax benefits of a particular business entity aren't a subsidy in any way.

You dont not even know what Im talking about.

Its the investor who gets the tax break. That is why its an indirect subsidy.

 

[scagnt83]

You made the distinction. Since it seems you're abandoning the "direct subsidies," (as you should because it's false)...

No. I gave you references about the direct subsidies. Nothing more is needed to be added.

If Im wrong, provide a single source proving that.

Ive provided sources proving my statement about direct subsidies... many of them. Im not going to go through the many direct subsidies and list them all.

But if there are none. You should easily be able to prove that.

In all fairness, the economic school of Yale says its $5.9b in direct subsidies.

So again, if the economic school in one of the top colleges in the nation is wrong. Feel free to provide facts backing up your claims as I have done.

 

[whatyouwantfinally]

No. I gave you references about the direct subsidies. Nothing more is needed to be added.

If Im wrong, provide a single source proving that.

No, you didn't. You posted links to propaganda that talk about "subsidies" that aren't payments from the government, which is what "direct subsidies" are.

Ive provided sources proving my statement about direct subsidies... many of them. Im not going to go through the many direct subsidies and list them all.

You aren't going to list any because there aren't any. Your "sources" didn't either. Frankly, you're talking out of your ass.

But if there are none. You should easily be able to prove that.

I can refer to you to the US budget, which includes no such "direct subsidies." I can point out that your "sources" don't list any either and only make reference to things that aren't direct or indirect "subsidies."

I can point out that you're just posting a bunch of links to things you didn't seem to read (and are propaganda) that don't establish what you say they do.

Beyond that, I probably can't help you.

In all fairness, the economic school of Yale says its $5.9b in direct subsidies.

So again, if the economic school in one of the top colleges in the nation is wrong. Feel free to provide facts backing up your claims as I have done.

No, the "economic school" of Yale doesn't. I believe you're referencing a number (it's 5.9 TRILLION, actually) activists came up with that covers "implicit subsidies" including things like health, global warming, etc. And they're talking globally, not the US. It's propaganda and it's B.S.

There are others who claim in the 60b/year range in the US, and if you actually READ, you'll see they're all talking about the same B.S. "Subsidy" doesn't mean any intangible, downriver cost one can dream up. It's the same wordplay used when people say the government "subsidizes" low-wage and part time workers with food stamps and the like.