- 15,319
Rules are meant to be broken.
Rick
Rick
Final Expense Phone Qualifying Is Working
- Thread starter Rearden
- Start date
Posted by Josh
"We're not talking about going a few miles of the speed limit, we're talking about violating a law that comes with a fine of up to $16,000 per *call*.
I asked before at least twice, give me just one name where an agent buying leads from his upline had to pay a fine of any amount let alone the $16,000 per call you insist on throwing out there.
You sound just like the local prosecutors who charged a local highschool girl with a 20 year felony for a cherry bomb. Your scare tactics are getting very boring to me and the others who are pming me.
Put up or shut. Its just like putting fear in people with Foresters contracts because they are a fraternal order. Nothing moe than scare tactics.
"We're not talking about going a few miles of the speed limit, we're talking about violating a law that comes with a fine of up to $16,000 per *call*.
I asked before at least twice, give me just one name where an agent buying leads from his upline had to pay a fine of any amount let alone the $16,000 per call you insist on throwing out there.
You sound just like the local prosecutors who charged a local highschool girl with a 20 year felony for a cherry bomb. Your scare tactics are getting very boring to me and the others who are pming me.
Put up or shut. Its just like putting fear in people with Foresters contracts because they are a fraternal order. Nothing moe than scare tactics.
- 4,872
Looks like this is another thread that got off topic. Josh, I wouldn't debate NF on this issue. The odds of getting caught are low, but if that 1/100 random event happens then he'll have 1st hand experience.
If he gets caught they'll terminate his contract and look for any and every way to keep all his pay-thru and renewals.
If he gets caught they'll terminate his contract and look for any and every way to keep all his pay-thru and renewals.
- 11,997
For the third time I'll answer your question: If you're comfortable earning a living by working lead that were generated illegally, then such is your right. If other agents want information from you about how to make money breaking the law, then great, but that doesn't change the fact that it's clearly illegal.
You think some people respond and book the appointment, just to have you come out so they can have your information to report you?
You think your upline isn't going to get caught when I presume they're making 100,000 of these calls a week? It's only a matter of time before they call the wrong person (or more than one) and end up getting first hand experience as to the sweet joy of finding yourself in violation of the FTC regulations.
Hell, the agents sending you messages might just be looking for information so they can report PHR insurance and you to the FTC and appropriate DOI. You see, that's the problem with breaking the law, if you do it long enough (especially publicly), you're probably going to get caught and have to pay the consequences. Enjoy thinking about that every time you call on a lead, run an appointment, and tell an insurance agent about what you're doing. In fact, for all you know, the powers that be could be looking for you based on what you've said here and you may have made it so public that now they know PHR Insurance is violating the law and that you, by name, are actively doing it with them knowing full well what's going on. Not an ideal situation.
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I think the way they will get the agents is Heidi Fleiss style. They will catch a vendor (shouldn't be hard, they have web sites) and go through their financial records to see who is paying them for leads. If your upline is paying and giving you the leads, no problem. If your credit card number is buying the leads...big problem.
That's how crimes are solved. Follow the money trail.
That's how crimes are solved. Follow the money trail.
- 3,764
You are probably right...Only thing I can think of is that some of these IMO's are selling Telemarketed Leads, but are probably Press 1 due to the lower costs...If that's the case, the agent may have a fighting chance to be cleared of any wrong doing...But like others said,these IMO's will eventually get caught, and the proverbial #$%* will hit the fan
- 2,452
Let's be clear, you are not barely breaking the speed limit here.
A better analogy would be that you are driving a red Ferrari with the top down at 100mph in the HOV lane by yourself while blaring Sammy Hagar's I can't drive 55. Then when you get to work an hour earlier than everyone else and when the rest of the squares get to work you go to break room and expound on how you got there so early. When our colleagues seem a little pissed it really pisses you off because it's your world and we're all living in it. You tell them "hey, it's my car and I'll drive it however and wherever I want and by the way the guy at the dealership never said a damn thing about it being illegal to do that." Co-workers say, "there are signs everywhere telling you not to do it", nope you didn't see them, "must have been texting and missed them as it's hard to take it all in when you drive like I do" you tell them. Finally you've had about enough and you tell them to go screw themselves and what's it hurting them anyway. A couple of them then explain that in reality is does hurt them. You see when you get there early and then stay late because our commute is a quarter of the time they spend you do have an unfair advantage and it does absolutely cost them. Then to top it off you come in here and brag about it and make it seem like they are the idiots.
You storm out of work as you're taking Friday off, gotta get home so you can go fishing with dynamite all weekend. Screw the other anglers, the lake you go to says nothing explicitly about not allowing that type thing....ain't life grand.
A better analogy would be that you are driving a red Ferrari with the top down at 100mph in the HOV lane by yourself while blaring Sammy Hagar's I can't drive 55. Then when you get to work an hour earlier than everyone else and when the rest of the squares get to work you go to break room and expound on how you got there so early. When our colleagues seem a little pissed it really pisses you off because it's your world and we're all living in it. You tell them "hey, it's my car and I'll drive it however and wherever I want and by the way the guy at the dealership never said a damn thing about it being illegal to do that." Co-workers say, "there are signs everywhere telling you not to do it", nope you didn't see them, "must have been texting and missed them as it's hard to take it all in when you drive like I do" you tell them. Finally you've had about enough and you tell them to go screw themselves and what's it hurting them anyway. A couple of them then explain that in reality is does hurt them. You see when you get there early and then stay late because our commute is a quarter of the time they spend you do have an unfair advantage and it does absolutely cost them. Then to top it off you come in here and brag about it and make it seem like they are the idiots.
You storm out of work as you're taking Friday off, gotta get home so you can go fishing with dynamite all weekend. Screw the other anglers, the lake you go to says nothing explicitly about not allowing that type thing....ain't life grand.
- Thread starter
- #159
- 5,305
NFL -- look at it this way:
-I talked to the OWNER of a VB lead-gen system -- just the other day -- and he CONFIRMED his VB leads DO have the potential of getting slammed with a fine. He settled out of court for several thousands of dollars for a VB lead generated in PA -- apparently they have a full-time state attorney aggressively prosecuting ANY VB leads they get.
But who knows what your area's federal prosecutor will do when he sees your fast cars and nice house?
-I bought 15 leads from another VB lead generation company that sells HUNDREDS of leads to 4 major final expense IMOs (probably the same place your upline buys his from). He's a total douche bag on the phone, and I asked him to PLEASE, put me at ease and explain how his VB leads or direct transfer leads get around the legality issue. I emailed him that close to a WEEK ago -- hasn't even BOTHERED to respond via email or phone (I gave him the phone option in case he'd rather not want it in writing).
What business owner who's selling AWESOME-quality leads... WOULDN'T want to placate his client's concerns, if there was absolutely nothing illegal with procuring them?
Bottom line, there's legal ways to generate these leads without the fines and legal issues involved. You'll have to pay more to play, but hey, at least you won't spend time in a federal pound-me-in-the-a** penitentiary!
-I talked to the OWNER of a VB lead-gen system -- just the other day -- and he CONFIRMED his VB leads DO have the potential of getting slammed with a fine. He settled out of court for several thousands of dollars for a VB lead generated in PA -- apparently they have a full-time state attorney aggressively prosecuting ANY VB leads they get.
But who knows what your area's federal prosecutor will do when he sees your fast cars and nice house?
-I bought 15 leads from another VB lead generation company that sells HUNDREDS of leads to 4 major final expense IMOs (probably the same place your upline buys his from). He's a total douche bag on the phone, and I asked him to PLEASE, put me at ease and explain how his VB leads or direct transfer leads get around the legality issue. I emailed him that close to a WEEK ago -- hasn't even BOTHERED to respond via email or phone (I gave him the phone option in case he'd rather not want it in writing).
What business owner who's selling AWESOME-quality leads... WOULDN'T want to placate his client's concerns, if there was absolutely nothing illegal with procuring them?
Bottom line, there's legal ways to generate these leads without the fines and legal issues involved. You'll have to pay more to play, but hey, at least you won't spend time in a federal pound-me-in-the-a** penitentiary!
Even if it has "never happened", there is no indication it won't happen. How many people ever had to spend their life's savings and go deep into debt only to hear the jusge say "Guilty and off to prision you go" for "Theft and Elder Abuse" because they sold a legal annuity before Glenn Neasham?
if you want to be first, I am sure no one on the forum objects. I still have not found any criminal penalties in the law but the civil penalties can be horrendous.
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