Final Expense Phone Qualifying Is Working

[moonlightandmargaritas]

I'm sure there are others, but this one is fairly high profile because it's a company a lot of folks doing voice broadcasting may have heard of, voiceblaze.

FTC Takes Action to Stop Massive Robocalling Operations

Another:

FTC Action Puts Robocallers Out of the Telemarketing Business

Thank you. After reading through the FTC's info, it gave some specific instances, but where does it state that there are NO loopholes, as you asserted?

 

[Josh]

I really hate to be like this, but I went over it in great deal in the article I posted above, FTC Robo Call Ban | Auto Dialer Services

There are exceptions, but not loopholes.

One of the arguments some folks are making is that the FTC regulation does not apply to insurance companies because they are regulated by the state (states rights and all that great stuff). The reason insurance companies and banks are exempted isn't in that they're exempted from the law in their marketing efforts, but in the way they conduct their business. For example, if Humana wants to robocall it's existing clients to notify them about a change in privacy call, they can do that. Again, ***existing clients***. If they want to robocall for new clients then it's different story because it's a marketing activity and as such it falls under the jurisdiction of the FTC.

Continuing on the above, if the FTC laws didn't apply to insurance marketing then insurance agents wouldn't be subject to the DNC regulations, but they are. DNC laws and the ban on robo calls are tied together *because* they are "consumer protection" laws that the FTC regulates.

Again, I'm not meaning to skirt the issue or try to needlessly point you to a text you don't want to read, but I spent three hours putting together the piece that I've linked to above and quoted to cover this topic pretty thoroughly. The short answer is that there are no loopholes, the long answer is take a few minutes and read through it.
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More specifics and source information from the FTC:

Complying with the Telemarketing Sales Rule | BCP Business Center

 

[theinsuranceman]

How could they think they wouldn't get caught when they advertise their addresses and telephone numbers on the web? However, this company appears to try to put the responsibilty on the lead purchaser..

FAQs - Leads Direct Marketing

Because the phone number of the robo caller that shows up on caller id looks legitimate, but if u call it you'll hear a recording that it's a disconnected number, hard to identify the robo caller using this method.

But, if the person being called wants to press some charges, they'll lure the human that takes the call, right after the 30 sec. recorded call, into a conversation. The person being called will act interested in the product, ask questions, etc. and eventually get the ID and contact info of the robo calling co.

Then...BUSTED! There was/is a retired judge in SC who supposedly has 5+ different telephone lines in his house for the sole purpose of busting robo callers.

The robo calling providers put the blame on you if any problems arise. Read the Terms and Conditions, if possible, as it is in legal talk that is hard to follow...designed so u don't really understand.

The only loophole is if a live person is on the line when the called person says "hello". Then the live person will ask the person being called if they would like to hear a free 30 sec. recording about burial costs and solutions. If yes, the live person presses a button to start the recording and they're off to the next dial. Much slower than pre Sept. 2009.

 

[Josh]

The only thing I'll add to the above is that all they need is the number on the caller ID to report it. They don't need to find out who it is. When you're blasting 10,000 calls an hour, how many do you think are going to report you? Almost none, right? Almost.

 

[nfl72]

Originally Posted by Josh

The law is very clear.
​

I think that that there are some smart lawyers who have the opinion that there are some loopholes"



I get phone calls from different credit card companies all the time, probalby 5 a week all stating they can get lower interest rates. when i call back it is a disconnected number.I have been trying to get them stopped for weeks. it is from different numbers al the time. I am on the do not call list.

in regards to my leads. When they come to me they include the leads name, address, age and phone number. The recording clearly shows them requesting this information.

You could get 5 differnt opinions from 5 attorney's in regards to what is legal and what is not. Josh, you seem like a fairly intelligent guy but have you ever considered the idea that you just may be wrong? I know its hard to accept that notion but there is a small, very small chance you mightt be missing something?

And then when you consider the fact that I am making millions selling these leads, I can afford a few nusiance law suits!

Read more: Final Expense Phone Qualifying Is Working - Page 6

 

[Josh]

in regards to my leads. When they come to me they include the leads name, address, age and phone number. The recording clearly shows them requesting this information.

It was also illegally obtained.

You could get 5 differnt opinions from 5 attorney's in regards to what is legal and what is not.

For the sake of discussion let's assume you're right on that point, it doesn't change the absolute fact that companies using this are getting fined in the millions of dollars. As I cited in two above cases (and there are more), the FTC is pressing charges on these. Maybe they're slow to respond, but they're certainly catching folks and the hammer is dropping.

Josh, you seem like a fairly intelligent guy but have you ever considered the idea that you just may be wrong? I know its hard to accept that notion but there is a small, very small chance you mightt be missing something?

I'm usually open to the idea that I'm wrong, but this is a black and white issue. The law is clear. The clarification the FTC gave is clear. The way companies are being fined in the millions of dollars is black and white. While some attorneys may have differing opinions about things, when presented with the cases that are being settled now and the law, no attorney in their right mind would concede that it's legal to use voice broadcasting to solicit the sale of insurance.

And then when you consider the fact that I am making millions selling these leads, I can afford a few nusiance law suits!

You've lost your mind if you think we're talking about "a few nuisance lawsuits".

I'll quote from here FTC Takes Action to Stop Massive Robocalling Operations

The settlement orders agreed to by the defendants in both cases bar them from violating the Telemarketing Sales Rule and require them to pay civil penalties. Each set of defendants will pay $10,000. The Voice Marketing Defendants and the VoiceBlaze Defendants also agreed to the entry of civil penalty judgments of $2 million and $1 million, respectively, which are suspended based on representations that the defendants lack the ability to pay. If a defendant is found to have misrepresented his or its financial condition, the full penalty will become due immediately.

By all means, keep chugging away at it, maybe you won't get caught. If you do, fully expect to lose your shirt on the deal.

You're breaking the law. It's that simple.

 

[Rearden]

Just got off the phone with an unnamed VB provider.

He says while lawsuits are a rare occurrence, he has been sued before and had settled out of court in the past for several thousand dollars.

The agent was liable for a portion of that amount.

The VB owner's perspective was that it's a cost of doing business you're willing to take or not willing to take.

 

[VolAgent]

I get phone calls from different credit card companies all the time, probalby 5 a week all stating they can get lower interest rates. when i call back it is a disconnected number.I have been trying to get them stopped for weeks. it is from different numbers al the time. I am on the do not call list.

That should tell you all you need to know. They are sending bogus info for the caller ID. So when people complain, they are complaining about a disconnected number.

They know they are breaking the law, they are simply getting away with it at this time.

 

[Mattschmidt]

Just got off the phone with an unnamed VB provider.

He says while lawsuits are a rare occurrence, he has been sued before and had settled out of court in the past for several thousand dollars.

The agent was liable for a portion of that amount.

The VB owner's perspective was that it's a cost of doing business you're willing to take or not willing to take.

So an agent could possibly be held responsible for these costs, even though he thought he was buying leads that were legal, from his upline...Couldn't the agent turn around and sue the Upline, for not disclosing that their leads were illegal? Example, if Securus and EFES were supplying illegal leads to the agents, what protection do the agents have against the IMO's?

 

[rousemark]

So an agent could possibly be held responsible for these costs, even though he thought he was buying leads that were legal, from his upline...Couldn't the agent turn around and sue the Upline, for not disclosing that their leads were illegal? Example, if Securus and EFES were supplying illegal leads to the agents, what protection do the agents have against the IMO's?

Matt, the one I posted has this in their FAQs:

Isn't Voice Broadcasting illegal

Yes and No. It is illegal to call homes in Indiana and North Dakota with any type of pre-recorded message. It is legal for many applications in the majority of the US. Check with your local state and the Telemarketing Sales Rules found on the FCC homepage.

They also say:

What about the Federal Do Not Call List Registry? Does your company maintain a list of those numbers?

Yes. We "scrub" our database as set forth by the Federal and State standards at no cost to you. We perform maintenance on this monthly. It is recommended that you have a federal SANS number prior to utilizing this service.

If you sued, they could claim full disclosure with these CYA statements. But if the FTC has hit them with a big fine, what could you get? They would have first claim.

As far as your saying you didn't know, the old saying, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" still holds true. In the end we are responsible to verify the legality of our marketing efforts.