Important Announcement

[Crabcake Johnny]

I know almost all companies "monitor calls" now for their protection. I wonder who well an agent would do, especially if they do online apps, if they told the client the call was being recorded. In MD you can record conversations as long as both parties agree.

 

[Frank Stastny]

I think what we're getting at is if you slam 4 people a day and when all the dust settles you're only left with 1 a day at 20% commish that's still six figures by lying and cheating people.

Clients trust you. You don't have to actually lie - just don't disclose anything and cover yourself by sending the brochure:

"Tim, I highly recommend the Right Start. I think it's a great plan and very cost effective. Tim, when was the last time you had an outpatient surgery? Exactly. Why pay for things you most likely will never use."

Can that agent be sued? Nope. He didn't lie and it's his personal belief that Right Start is a good plan. Is it unethical? Sure but I think that's what this post is about. Can the "higher-ups" clamp down or should they clamp down on this type of selling. Should Assurant be rolling these agents under the bus? If you hit the Assurant website and run a quote Right Start has a big red "MOST POPULAR" next to it - obviously an attempt to drive clients to those plans. So when agents drive clients to those plans all of a sudden it's an ethical problem? Sounds like a case of "do what I say not what I do."

I only work in the senior market and there is a huge difference between a standardized Med Supp policy and a MM policy. The coverage provided by a Med Supp policy, by law, has to be the same with each company. (There are a couple of states where that is an exception.)

In response to your other thread talking about first year commissions, Med Supp commissions typically are level for the first 8 years. So changing people at the end of 12 months is not an advantage for the agent.

This is probably a thread that I should not have responded to since the product isn't anything like a Med Supp.

However, what you are talking about could definitely apply to agents selling PFFS plans. I know of agents who's plan it is to switch their clients each year into a different PFFS plan just to make the commission without regard to what is best for the client.

There are "top producers" of PFFS plans who I believe would fall in the group of agents you are talking about.

 

[policy doctor]

Re: top producers who roll over clients every year, regardless of product, are known as replacement artists. Unfortunately, are we not guilty of the same when we approach a stranger and ask "Would you like to save money on your current plan?"

It is a lot easier to "replace" then to sell "new". I think we assuage our conscience with the conviction, "I saved them 20-30%, or $$$ from their last plan". GUILTY and we do this because of competition.....phone ringing!!

Far as ramming apps....theory is you throw enuf up there something will stick. And by golly it does....

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

There is some truth to that. What's my responsibility as an agent if I sign up a client with "ABC" company at $500 a month and 12 months later "XYZ" company now has a plan that can lower the deductible by $1,000 and take the rate down to $410?"

 

[Frank Stastny]

Re: top producers who roll over clients every year, regardless of product, are known as replacement artists. Unfortunately, are we not guilty of the same when we approach a stranger and ask "Would you like to save money on your current plan?"

It is a lot easier to "replace" then to sell "new". I think we assuage our conscience with the conviction, "I saved them 20-30%, or $$$ from their last plan". GUILTY and we do this because of competition.....phone ringing!!

Far as ramming apps....theory is you throw enuf up there something will stick. And by golly it does....

No, I don't believe we are when we find out that we can save an individual as much as $1,200 per year in premium over what they are paying now. In replacing a policy like that we are doing what the original agent should have done in the first place, sell them a good policy at a reasonable price.

Are you suggesting that policies never be replaced even when it is in the best interest of the client? Isn't that what the basic premise of selling insurance is all about, saving the prospect money? I'll bet every agent on this board who sells health insurance asks the prospect if they want to save money over what they are paying now. Are you suggesting that this is in some way unethetical? I'm not sure I understand what you are driving at.

I disagree that it is easier to replace a policy than to sell new.

 

[Frank Stastny]

There is some truth to that. What's my responsibility as an agent if I sign up a client with "ABC" company at $500 a month and 12 months later "XYZ" company now has a plan that can lower the deductible by $1,000 and take the rate down to $410?"

If the benefits are basically the same and you were my agent I would expect you to call and suggest I consider making the change regardless of how long it had been. If you didn't, and I found out from another source, I would fire you as my agent.

I believe that it is your responsibility to offer to switch your client to a more affordable policy, again, all things being relatively equal.

 

[policy doctor]

Alas, it takes too long to type out good arguments.

Look 30 years ago we were a healthier nation...look at us now. from drugs (legal and illegal), fast food, smoking/drinking/vices/ it has deteriorated us. Indulging our appetites (collective our) we are now fatsos, perverts, angry, stressed and utilizing health insurance more...even in areas where claims were rare, like mental health.

So rates started to go up, then state gov'ts mandated wider coverage, and co's started going nuts with the rates. So as an agent who tried to build a good block of business with a carrier or two, the industry changed and the agent was forced to compete to survive. Fine, so you're forced to switch plans for the client in order to keep him, but you can't grow your business too much more because it takes time to conserve what you have. So yes, you're "replacing" what YOU sold, and what another agent sold. Can't be bad...we're all doing it.

Far as selling a policy at a reasonable rate....isn't that how you got the biz in the first place? Spikes 3-4 yrs later are not your fault....co said it was bad claim experience. You're just the ball they threw in the roulette wheel and you landed on....30% HIKE! And yes , it is easier to replace than to sell new....you just admitted it by acknowledging that a similar benefit plan cheaper should be offered by your existing agent or you would be offended. And the basic premise of selling insurance is, actually, to minimize risk to the prospect. So he has to spend his money to access leveraged capital to protect a loss he cannot afford.(or won't)

 

[Frank Stastny]

Doc,

I think I better understand what you are saying. I believe we are working in different markets. Aren't you selling MM? I'm working in the senior market.

Things are totally in the senior market. All policies from all companies are identical. There is no difference in coverage, clams filing or claims payment. The only difference is in the price.

The only way an agent can make it in the senior market is to replace a policy with the one the prospect has that is less money. It is almost 100% about the premium.

As a general rule I don't replace policies for my clients. It is not a cost effective use of my time. Many of my clients have been with me for over ten years. I sell prospects the policy they should have purchased in the first place with a company that isn't going to hit them with an predictable huge increase.

I replace policies sold by other agents. Policies that are not the best investment of the prospects premium dollars and policies that are way "over priced" for the current market.

It is not easy to replace another Med Supp policy. If it were every agent in the senior market would be wealthy.

Just as an example, people tell me "I'm going to lose all the money I paid xyz company if I cancel the policy I have now".

That is one of the more logical objections I get.

 

[midwestbroker]

I will say for the senior market, the MA side is a year by year deal.

The carriers have to adjust their plans every year, for capitation fees they get from CMS, plan usage, market expansion, etc. These plans are then locked for the entire year.

So, one year Humana may have the best PPO in the market, then they may adjust it, and then Coventry may have the best PPO the next. Then the year after that, a new PPO carrier may come to market with the best benefits, etc.

I have told seniors that they will have to review their plans year after year to make sure they have the best plan. Plus, other then ESRD, there is no underwriting, so their health condition is not a concern.

 

[senior-advisor-indiana]

Are you ok Frank? Seems as if you are just repeating yourself. Did you tke your Aricept today?