Just left NASB (warning to other future naive noobs)

[DayTimer]

The Kentucky rules wouldn't turn an AIG GI policy into a 1st day coverage policy.

Well, an agent who replaces a whole life policy that has aged past contestability with a GI 2 year ROP ought to lose his or her license forever, imo. Should also do some time in the county jail.

 

[Tahoe Ray]

NY pretty tough on replacers?

I had an appointment tonight. I could have replaced an $8K on the wife and $10K on the hubby and sold them both new $20K policies. But the policies they have are 3+ years old.
I could have saved them a bit and got em a bit more, but 67 and 68 years old with diabtes w/complications? No way. No need to put these folks at risk. We're 'shoncemen.* We take the risk not give it.




*not to be confused with @shonceman

They have a multi-step (or did depending on carrier) replacement process that requires substantial comparisons, reasons, etc.

It's not unusual for a carrier to straight up decline a replacement in NY, even with extenuating circumstances (if the numbers aren't there in their viewpoint).

 

[shonceman]

NY pretty tough on replacers?

I had an appointment tonight. I could have replaced an $8K on the wife and $10K on the hubby and sold them both new $20K policies. But the policies they have are 3+ years old.
I could have saved them a bit and got em a bit more, but 67 and 68 years old with diabtes w/complications? No way. No need to put these folks at risk. We're 'shoncemen.* We take the risk not give it.




*not to be confused with @shonceman

This message is "shonceman" approved.

 

[WinoBlues]

NY pretty tough on replacers?

I had an appointment tonight. I could have replaced an $8K on the wife and $10K on the hubby and sold them both new $20K policies. But the policies they have are 3+ years old.
I could have saved them a bit and got em a bit more, but 67 and 68 years old with diabtes w/complications? No way. No need to put these folks at risk. We're 'shoncemen.* We take the risk not give it.




*not to be confused with @shonceman

There are several recruiters and agents on this forum laughing at you right now. These guys would have replaced it and of course justified it, in their own mind.

 

[DayTimer]

There are several recruiters and agents on this forum laughing at you right now.

They can laugh all they want. I don't have to spend the next two years worrying that these folks wake up every day. I have never had a contested claim denied. I bet the first one I get will be that time I get stupid and replace a gold policy with a paper one (ain't gonna happen). I don't ever want a contested claim denied. But if I do, at least I won't have the added guilt of knowing that these folks would have been better off had they never met me.

An agent friend of mine with Mass recently told me about a client of his on whom he had written a multi-million dollar convertible term in 2015. The client replaced it in late 2019. The agent tried to save it and the client just said he "got a better deal."

Fast forward to January 2021, and the client had lost his restaurant due to Covid and was drowning in debt. Shot himself in the head. So the replacing agent gave this client a "better deal" by writing him a paper policy and causing the client to throw away his gold. Wife and three kids now financially destroyed on top of the emotional destruction of being the children of a suicide.

The client had never told his wife he replaced his policy, and when he died, the wife called the original agent. I don't know exactly how it all unfolded but he did meet with the widow and he did help file the claim though he knew the inevitable outcome and did his best to prepare her for it. He looked the replacing agent up and the replacing agent was first licensed in 2017 and his license expired unrenewed about a month after he replaced that client's gold with paper.

Recruiters recruit and train recruits to replace. Terrible way to live one's life and make a living, imo. So many in the country uninsured and under-insured, but right now we are recruiting masses of people to sell who aren't salespeople. The replacement sale is merely taking an order in most cases. The replacing agent merely exchanging one commodity, "the death benefit," with another like commodity only perhaps this one is a bit cheaper or a bit larger or even both. But they are not mere commodities and it is not replacing "more expensive and lower" with "cheaper and higher;" it is replacing gold with paper.

The real salesperson is the one who first sold that client a life insurance policy. The replacement clerks who came in behind only think themselves salespeople. And the MLM replacement clerk recruiting mills are working at peak capacity since Covid hit. It is a bull market in MLM insurance recruiting right now. And the public should be largely better off because of it. But the poor training and lack of ethical standards is causing the benefit to be smaller than it should be, and causing far more harm than should be allowed.

 

[theinsuranceman]

They can laugh all they want. I don't have to spend the next two years worrying that these folks wake up every day. I have never had a contested claim denied. I bet the first one I get will be that time I get stupid and replace a gold policy with a paper one (ain't gonna happen). I don't ever want a contested claim denied. But if I do, at least I won't have the added guilt of knowing that these folks would have been better off had they never met me.

An agent friend of mine with Mass recently told me about a client of his on whom he had written a multi-million dollar convertible term in 2015. The client replaced it in late 2019. The agent tried to save it and the client just said he "got a better deal."

Fast forward to January 2021, and the client had lost his restaurant due to Covid and was drowning in debt. Shot himself in the head. So the replacing agent gave this client a "better deal" by writing him a paper policy and causing the client to throw away his gold. Wife and three kids now financially destroyed on top of the emotional destruction of being the children of a suicide.

The client had never told his wife he replaced his policy, and when he died, the wife called the original agent. I don't know exactly how it all unfolded but he did meet with the widow and he did help file the claim though he knew the inevitable outcome and did his best to prepare her for it. He looked the replacing agent up and the replacing agent was first licensed in 2017 and his license expired unrenewed about a month after he replaced that client's gold with paper.

Recruiters recruit and train recruits to replace. Terrible way to live one's life and make a living, imo. So may in the country uninsured and underinsured, but right now we are recruiting masses of people to sell who aren't salespeople. The replacement sale is merely taking an order in most cases. The replacing agent merely exchanging rone commodity, the death benefit," with another like commodity only perhaps this one is a bit cheaper or a bit larger or even both. But they are not mere commodities and it is not replacing more expensive and lower with cheaper and higher, it is replacing gold with paper.

The real salesperson is the one who first sold that client a life insurance policy. The replacement clerks who came in behind only think themselves salespeople.

Very well said. Every week we hear brokers up here bragging about replacing older policies with cheaper rates or more face amt. for the same premium. I believe this might sometimes be beneficial for the insured, but I'm betting that a lot of times replacements are made by agents behind on their bills and desperate for an advance. And as you said, their manager is encouraging that agent to do replacements, because that manager is also desperate for an overwrite advance.

 

[noah]

The Kentucky rules wouldn't turn an AIG GI policy into a 1st day coverage policy. The KY rules just make the policy pay as it's designed to with no new contestibility allowed if it replaced a previous policy.

So if an agent writes a new 1st day coverage policy and the person dies 3-months in there would be no contestibility if the old policy had been in force over 21- months and was for the same or greater face amount.

But a policy with graded or modified benefit would still act as a graded or modified benefit. In fact ALL GI policies in all states are not contestible other than for age or gender.

So what do you do when an unethical replacement like this occurs ?

What do you tell your down lines to do ?

Insured doesn't have the money to pay back premiums for reinstatement.

Now what ?

 

[Thedude]

I always got shit on this forum when I first joined for calling out low ballers who just replace. Especially people who replace with CERTIFICATES and don't explain the difference and I know they don't because the top producing agent didn't even understand the difference. I could comb my posts for proof but would take a minute.

 

[WinoBlues]

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[Thedude]

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We remember !!!