Lead Debt

[nfl72]

stated by the insuranceman

"Surely you jest. I know an agent, sells only face 2 face because he doesn't like FE tele-sales, who orders 30-35 fresh DM leads per week.

Of course, he usually writes $5k-$9k every week. And, he also gets more "not interested", more "let me think about it", more "I can't afford it", more "we've already done something else", etc. BUT he also gets more "yesses". Amazing how this biz works isn't it?"


I work telemarketed leads not DM but I would think that very very few agents work 125 dm leads a month? There is a difference between working a lead and realy truly working a lead.

Also in this senario we are talking about a new agent not a seasoned pro who knows more about when to work a lead and when to toss it.

I would venture most new agents who work 125 leads a month are going to fall into the 90% of the agents who fail miserably.

Read more: Lead Debt - Page 2

 

[Todd King]

You might not realize it but you are agreeing with me! Yes agents that don't pay back debit balances should be on vector: period. Yes, recruiters should have knowledge of this before agreeing advances.

As a paying member of vector I could place you on vector without any proof, and vector would do nothing to stop it.

What I am talking about is the abuse at is going on with vector (lead balances, captive contracts where upon termination all commissions are charged back despite the business still being in the books to pay it off) Thats the issues with vector that I have. It's being abused by many, many organizations right now, and it's hurting everyone. Even you.

Okay, I do agree it's being abused by some out there. But it's not Vector. They are just a reporting agency, they aren't set up to do investigations. Now, if you dispute the debt and the company/agency reporting it to them doesn't come up with some proof, then you'll be taken off.

Sort of like the 3 big credit reporting agencies. They only pass along the info that is given to them.

 

[donamese]

If you dispute it with Vector, they will require proof from the company.

The reality is, if agents didn't try to screw over uplines and carriers, there would be no abuse or even reason for Vector. Unfortunately, it is the only place where IMOs and insurance carriers can locate a bad apple and hopefully cut their line in the industry.

This industry is filled with offers, commissions, leads, training, etc. Uplines and carriers need to cover themselves. There are producers out there that would finance 50 leads then say they suck (sold them with another carrier) then demand they don't owe for them. Should the upline or carrier eat this debt? I am sure a hand full of honest producers get stuck with something that isn't owed but the majority do owe it and try to avoid paying it.

 

[VolAgent]

If you dispute it with Vector, they will require proof from the company.

The reality is, if agents didn't try to screw over uplines and carriers, there would be no abuse or even reason for Vector. Unfortunately, it is the only place where IMOs and insurance carriers can locate a bad apple and hopefully cut their line in the industry.

This industry is filled with offers, commissions, leads, training, etc. Uplines and carriers need to cover themselves. There are producers out there that would finance 50 leads then say they suck (sold them with another carrier) then demand they don't owe for them. Should the upline or carrier eat this debt? I am sure a hand full of honest producers get stuck with something that isn't owed but the majority do owe it and try to avoid paying it.

The industry's current method of hiring and training new agents is about as effective as throwing darts at the paper to pick stocks. Agencies that have a better experience are the exception and not the rule.

Right now the industry has decided to spend next to nothing on effective hiring and training. Chargebacks and unpaid leads are the price.

Companies can either pay to do it right on the front end, or they can pay for the poor results on the back end. Either way they pay. And no, I'm not sure what the best method to hire agents is either, that is why I don't.

 

[cds251]

Vector, will only state that the listing carrier/agency provide proof to the alleged debtor....not to vector.

If the "paying member" tells vector the debt remains then vector will leave them on their (irrespective of whether the debt is valid or not)

Would leads not be considered a "consumer" transaction, thus subject to the Fair Credit rules etc??

Also, last time I checked their procedure manual it said something to the effect that the debit must be for policies cancelled. Leads, training etc etc could not and should not be included in any debit.

Clearly, many, many, agencies are ignoring that and placing everything in the same bucket.

I'll have to dig the guidelines out that they sent us for placing an individual on vector. It was an interesting read.

 

[gordon112]

Vector, will only state that the listing carrier/agency provide proof to the alleged debtor....not to vector.

If the "paying member" tells vector the debt remains then vector will leave them on their (irrespective of whether the debt is valid or not)

Would leads not be considered a "consumer" transaction, thus subject to the Fair Credit rules etc??

Also, last time I checked their procedure manual it said something to the effect that the debit must be for policies cancelled. Leads, training etc etc could not and should not be included in any debit.

Clearly, many, many, agencies are ignoring that and placing everything in the same bucket.

I'll have to dig the guidelines out that they sent us for placing an individual on vector. It was an interesting read.

They are for sure violating those rules, I had an agent I was going to hire and was on vector for leads that was charged to him. He never even wrote a piece of business with this company. He got hit with $450 which he already paid for....talk about abuse, and the guy couldn't get contracted for 6months.

 

[glock32]

The industry's current method of hiring and training new agents is about as effective as throwing darts at the paper to pick stocks. Agencies that have a better experience are the exception and not the rule.

Right now the industry has decided to spend next to nothing on effective hiring and training. Chargebacks and unpaid leads are the price.

Companies can either pay to do it right on the front end, or they can pay for the poor results on the back end. Either way they pay. And no, I'm not sure what the best method to hire agents is either, that is why I don't.

I sure am glad I work only referred leads and ones I develop from my client base. I did not realize companies were so ruthless in reporting lead debt to Vector. I can see legitimate debit balances from chargeback but just like CB reporting everything is getting out of hand

 

[nfl72]

If you pay for your leads in advance with a good credit card you can help protect yourself against bad leads. That is exactly why YAL stopped taking payments via credit card. They kept getting charged back because their leads sucked so bad. If a vendor won't take a payment via credit card that might be a good warning to you to not use them.

 

[pcbinsurance]

+1 on using your business AMEX to purchase EVERYTHING.

 

[jacobtn]

i've never heard of Vector, but glad i read this post i will make sure not to get with anyone who uses this system.

Ssshhhh... don't tell anyone you've never heard of vector. You're probably the only one. You wont find any carriers that haven't either.