LifeSecure Group LTC

[ltci4sure]

BS Degree

Really?

It is company policy.

Which company? My agency does not have this, and, as far as I know - ltcfp did not either. Can you show one warm body that was shortchanged this way?

An agent needs a letter allowing the release or you can hold them up.

And an agent can take agency to court. Where is the paperwork to back this up? Agents are not employees - they're on a contract.

Please stop acting naive.

I am continuously amazed. I dig up the written contract - now you are saying it is in some mysterious "company policy"... If I dig up by-laws, and it is not there, what are you going to claim? Let's just agree that not all agencies are the same, policy-wise and on ltcfp in particular - you were in the wrong.

 

[scagnt83]

Thats very interesting how you describe "cold calling a warm market" - almost sounds like mail leads :-) and to think.... 10:1 conversion.


Indeed, if someone gets in touch with your directly (aka referral) ... you can do much better. Much much better.

Cold calling your warm market is nothing like DM leads.

A warm market is people that know who you are and you have some type of pre-established relationship with. But they are not contacting you and asking for your services. You are calling them out of the blue and asking them if they are in need of your services.

That difference is a big one. Not everyone is in need of what we do. By default, many people in your warm market truly will not have the need to make a change to their insurance.

So you should expect at least 25%-35% of your warm market to honestly have no need at all for your services. Then another 25% will have a need but will not care enough to do anything about it with you or anyone else.
Between those 2 issues, that eliminates around 50% of your warm market already.


But with DM leads (or any other type of lead), they have actually expressed interest and actually see a need for your services. They might not know you personally, but they know they need what you do.


I can tell that you have either always worked at an IMO or you speak "manager talk" (meaning that you try to twist things to fit your specific agenda).

No experienced agent would ever say that cold calling your warm market is the same as calling qualified leads.

(and a qualified lead is someone who has expressed interest in your services and has provided accurate answers to the questions on the form (whatever those questions may be))

 

[CALTCAgent]

Which company? My agency does not have this, and, as far as I know - ltcfp did not either. Can you show one warm body that was shortchanged this way?

You and I know it is insurance company policy. The agent needs something in writing saying you will release or he has nothing. You playing naive proves your intentions.

If an agent asks for something in writing up front he will be frowned upon.

And an agent can take agency to court. Where is the paperwork to back this up? Agents are not employees - they're on a contract.

Yeah right. Total game playing on your part. You really think we are stupid.

 

[ltci4sure]

You and I know it is insurance company policy.

Yes, so what? If a person is leaving an agency - she or he gets released upon request. In fact having an agent appointed with no contract is a bad thing for liability and E&O reasons (you do have the coverage, right?), so your reasoning would not hold up in the real world.

The agent needs something in writing saying you will release or he has nothing. You playing naive proves your intentions.

If an agent's contract is dissolved - the appointment is worth nothing, agency can be taken to court if they refuse to release for no good reason.
The only agency that I know was playing games is Genworth. Are you harping on them ? Haven't heard a peep.

Can you or can you NOT demo one example when a person from an agency you like to rip into was held appointed against their will without good reason?

 

[CALTCAgent]

In fact having an agent appointed with no contract is a bad thing for liability and E&O reasons (you do have the coverage, right?), so your reasoning would not hold up in the real world.

How can you appoint someone with no contract ?

You really are a weasel. Let everyone see what you are.

If an agent's contract is dissolved - the appointment is worth nothing, agency can be taken to court if they refuse to release for no good reason.

More BS. Not worth a response.

The only agency that I know was playing games is Genworth. Are you harping on them ? Haven't heard a peep.

Weren't they a company you couldn't sell ?

Can you or can you NOT demo one example when a person from an agency you like to rip into was held appointed against their will without good reason?

As soon as you reveal who you are and represent.

And I promise no pitchforks and we can all sing kumbaya together.

 

[ltci4sure]

Weren't they a company you couldn't sell ?

I have been selling genworth since the 90s. You are confused.

As soon as you reveal who you are and represent.

Haters are gonna... welll... hate.

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How can you appoint someone with no contract ?

that's my point. Contract with an agent is dissolved upon request. Once that's done how could I hold anyone appointed under me? The same clause exists in old ltcfp contract - dissolution of the agreement upon request.

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A warm market is people that know who you are and you have some type of pre-established relationship with. But they are not contacting you and asking for your services. You are calling them out of the blue and asking them if they are in need of your services.

Very interesting wording. So you are calling unsolicited? This is regulated by FCC, including a requirement to subscribe to a "do not call list" (not cheap). In addition to that, if you are using automated dialing, you will be held to additional restrictions. One complaint results in $1000s in fines should fcc think you are worth pursuing. Who is your warm market?

No experienced agent would ever say that cold calling your warm market is the same as calling qualified leads.

I wont deny that i have always worked within an agency system. At the same time, your "warm market" definition pre-supposes some sort of list+priming the recipients of your calls *somehow* which entails what exactly? Plus you are then restricted in a way I specified above.

(and a qualified lead is someone who has expressed interest in your services and has provided accurate answers to the questions on the form (whatever those questions may be))

Ok, fine - but even with those the appointment and conversion rates are between 5-15+:1. Varies by agent (and surprise!) and by who paid for the lead. And even that is questionable. I have seen people waste leads they paid for in 100s.

 

[CALTCAgent]

that's my point. Contract with an agent is dissolved upon request. Once that's done how could I hold anyone appointed under me? The same clause exists in old ltcfp contract - dissolution of the agreement upon request.

Agency contract and the insurance carrier appointment contract are 2 different things. Agent will maintain appointment until released or the amount of non production time has passed.

 

[ltci4sure]

Agency contract and the insurance carrier appointment contract are 2 different things. Agent will maintain appointment until released or the amount of non production time has passed.

Yes, but do you not understand that keeping someone against their will w/o agency contract represents potential legal and E&O issue? It brings nothing positive - just the negatives to the agency. The only outfits that would even consider doing something like that - career shops connected to the carriers (they can afford not to care).
Remember agency - is people's business. Pissing people off, starving them and/or cheating is *bad business*.

 

[scagnt83]

Yes, but do you not understand that keeping someone against their will w/o agency contract represents potential legal and E&O issue? It brings nothing positive - just the negatives to the agency. The only outfits that would even consider doing something like that - career shops connected to the carriers (they can afford not to care).
Remember agency - is people's business. Pissing people off, starving them and/or cheating is *bad business*.

This is the biggest load of BS you have said so far. Career shops do not do that at all. I was career LFG (& NYL) once and was able to go to an indy contract at will with LFG... and it was written in my contract with LFG.

IMOs not giving a release is a very common issue that agents run into in this industry. The fact that you would try to claim that career shops are the ones that do that and not IMOs shows how little you know about how this industry works as a whole.

If you have no separate contract with the agent giving them a release, then there is no potential legal action or E&O action if you do not give an agent a release. You have a 100% legal right to withhold the release unless the agent has not written business under that contract in the past 6 months.

Is it bad business practices? Yes
Is it common for it to happen? Yes
Is it a potential legal or E&O threat to the IMO? Absolutely 100% not


You either have no clue what you are talking about or you are a lying snake.

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Very interesting wording. So you are calling unsolicited? This is regulated by FCC, including a requirement to subscribe to a "do not call list" (not cheap). In addition to that, if you are using automated dialing, you will be held to additional restrictions. One complaint results in $1000s in fines should fcc think you are worth pursuing. Who is your warm market?

A warm market is best approached in person... actual agents know this. Actual agents also know what the term warm market is.

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I wont deny that i have always worked within an agency system.

It shows very clearly in your knowledge of this industry. And I think you mean to say that you have always worked as a marketer for an IMO. An "Agency System" would refer to a career shop run by a carrier.

Now if your definition of an "Agency System" is an IMO such as LTCFP, then that is not the norm for this industry in the least bit.

 

[ltci4sure]

This is the biggest load of BS you have said so far.

People on this forum are nice. Ohhhhhmmmmmm (sounds hollow right?)
Can you not distinguish at all where I am expressing what in my opinion is common sense from whatever anyone else is doing?

Career shops do not do that at all. I was career LFG (& NYL) once and was able to go to an indy contract at will with LFG... and it was written in my contract with LFG.

And I care why? What I wrote is based on what I know. Carrier shops don't care (and don't need to care).

IMOs not giving a release is a very common issue that agents run into in this industry.

On one hand, having dealt with agency enough, I know why they'd do it. (Defending the devil mode on). Imagine you're giving out leads, agent takes 100 leads ($5k), turns in nothing, then wants immediate release. Agency people are thinking well... you got $5k ... we are left holding the bag, cause no matter who we give these leads to - they're "B" leads now and nothing prevents you from going ahead and selling these on the side.(Defending the devil mode off). How's that?
We have always dealt with it differently, choosing to eat whatever loss may have taken place. Reasons: This is a small world. Before you know it - that person may come back in a different capacity (e.g. as a carrier account rep). Why burn bridges... In my view - this is people business, the more paranoid you are - the worse it will turn out. Karma, sir...

The fact that you would try to claim that ... not IMOs shows how little you know about how this industry works as a whole.

Re-read what I wrote. I specifically mentioned that our agency does not do it, and that (specifically) the agency that gets a lot of hate on here - ltcfp - never used to do it (I don't know what they are doing post-merger, things could have changed - although knowing the people there - I doubt it).

If you have no separate contract with the agent giving them a release, then there is no potential legal action or E&O action

BLah-blah-blah. Here is specific scenario: Our agency specifies that the agent has to be compliant with HIPAA by taking certain measures. Once agent's contract is broken - I can't enforce it, but see, if I don't kick her or him from my appointment - agent can still write business under me, violate HIPAA and guess who the carrier will go after?
This is just one unpleasant scenario - there are others...

if you do not give an agent a release. You have a 100% legal right to withhold the release unless the agent has not written business under that contract in the past 6 months.

And? What would the agency have achieved? Not that I would doubt for a second that people like those on this forum, put in a position to run an agency would do it every time. Spiteful, hateful bunch - they'd do it just to "show them".

Is it a potential legal or E&O threat to the IMO? Absolutely 100% not

See above, just one scenario.

You either have no clue what you are talking about or you are a lying snake.

You are so nice.

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A warm market is best approached in person... actual agents know this. Actual agents also know what the term warm market is.

Don't fume - Whatever it is you are saying here contradicts what you said before. You mentioned making calls. This implies some significant breadth to your "warm market" - but see, making calls to people you don't personally know still binds you under the same cold call-making rules. Unless of course, you only mean family/friends/attendees to your seminar/referrals/etc. Generating such "warm market" leads is, naturally, possible - just not very scalable - some people can do it and some can't or would not.

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IMO such as LTCFP, then that is not the norm for this industry in the least bit.

I am still confused - I thought you were saying how ltcfp is at the very bottom of the swamp, the dirtiest of the bunch...