LTC with Mass Mutual

[Arthur Rudnick]

Alright, now it is time to call BS. Your wife did not get preferred plus after having had cancer.

What he said was: "I have a NWM quote"
So far she hasn't been approved at any rate.

His "very friendly agent" can supply a quote at any premium he wants. If she's approved at Standard, watch that $3,800 jump to $4,500.

Very few NWM agents have any clue about the world of LTCi.

 

[numbernut]

Alright, now it is time to call BS. Your wife did not get preferred plus after having had cancer.

I was told she got their top spot. Her policy says "Premier NT". (Life Insurance that we already have)

Thanks guys for the responses, CALTCAgent, Arthur.

 

[VolAgent]

I was told she got their top spot. Her policy says "Premier NT". (Life Insurance that we already have)

Thanks guys for the responses, CALTCAgent, Arthur.

Was it secured prior to cancer, was the app clean sheeted?

There isn't an underwriting guide on the planet that allows for preferred, must less preferred best with any personal history of internal cancer.

Only way I could possibly see this as being halfway legit is if she and her entire law firm, physican's group, etc. applied to NWM for massive WL policies, and they had to take her as part of the deal.

 

[numbernut]

We applied 7 years from the original diagnosis. She had all clean scans after the original surgery. I don't know if actuaries crunch probabilities for different forms of cancer (her's was Thyroid, which was removed). I do remember the agent saying something about the company looking back 5-7 years for cancer free check-ups.
I remember being surprised at her rating, we didn't even know if she could get insurance.

 

[dgoldenz]

I'm also calling BS....no way any company, much less a conservative company like NWM, approved a cancer survivor at Preferred Plus.

 

[Arthur Rudnick]

I'm also calling BS....no way any company, much less a conservative company like NWM, approved a cancer survivor at Preferred Plus.

First of all, I'm not a life guy, so I'm not pretending to be an expert on life underwriting.

BUT..............
Thyroid cancer, with complete removal of the thyroid, 7 years out, IMO does not appear to put any carrier at an increased risk.

NWM has captive agents. I know that Dave & Vol are not captive with NWM. Is it possible that she was approved at Preferred-Best? I don't know the answer but, why would it be to Numbersnut's advantage to BS us and claim she is?

Again, she was not approved at preferred for a NWM LTC policy, her agent only gave her a quote at preferred rates. The underwriters will obviously decide.

 

[VolAgent]

First of all, I'm not a life guy, so I'm not pretending to be an expert on life underwriting.

BUT..............
Thyroid cancer, with complete removal of the thyroid, 7 years out, IMO does not appear to put any carrier at an increased risk.

NWM has captive agents. I know that Dave & Vol are not captive with NWM. Is it possible that she was approved at Preferred-Best? I don't know the answer but, why would it be to Numbersnut's advantage to BS us and claim she is?

Again, she was not approved at preferred for a NWM LTC policy, her agent only gave her a quote at preferred rates. The underwriters will obviously decide.

Any internal cancer, not just thyroid. With life, the hope is that after 5-10 years you can get a standard rating again, not a table rated offer. There isn't an underwriting guide on the planet that would allow preferred plus for someone with cancer. Heck, your father or sister having internal cancer is enough to prevent preferred best with most carriers.

Again, the only remote chance is if they were writing a huge pool of whole life policies and it was a take it or else for NWM. And even then, they wouldn't because no one else would make that offer either.

 

[2insureyou]

[FONT=&quot]Again, NO in-force rate increases... just on new policies. Here is a breakdown copied from the intro letter I received.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Dear LTC Brokers, [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Health Product Management will formally announce LTCi2011 updates to SignatureCare today, December 30th, in 42 states. This is the day we can begin illustrating the enhancements, with new business implementation on Tuesday, January 3, 2012. Over the past year, MassMutual worked closely with field advisory committees to develop and implement these updates. Below is a summary of these important changes. [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]Rate Changes: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]o[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Premium rates updated to reflect recent industry claims data[/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]Discount Changes:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]o[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Lowered the Ultra Preferred discount from 15% to 10% [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]o[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Lowered the covered partner discount from 35% to 30% [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]o[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Increased the partner discount from 5% to 15% [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]Rider Changes[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]o[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Discontinuation of Indemnity Benefit Rider[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]o[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Discontinuation of 5% Simple Inflation Protection [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]o[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]These changes are effective in all states, independent of state approval [/FONT]
· [FONT=&quot]New Partnership States:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]o[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]With these enhancements, SignatureCare 500 will be available as a partnership policy in NC, bringing the total number of states certified as Partnership to 36. [/FONT]
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Any internal cancer, not just thyroid. With life, the hope is that after 5-10 years you can get a standard rating again, not a table rated offer. There isn't an underwriting guide on the planet that would allow preferred plus for someone with cancer. Heck, your father or sister having internal cancer is enough to prevent preferred best with most carriers.

Again, the only remote chance is if they were writing a huge pool of whole life policies and it was a take it or else for NWM. And even then, they wouldn't because no one else would make that offer either.

Simply not true... I AM captive with NML, and I just got a client approved at premier who had thyroid cancer removed 5 years ago. Depends on size of tumor, exact location, type of thyroid cancer and results of treatment.

You are simply wrong in this case. It is ENTIRELY possible that numbernut is exactly right about this. He clearly is anyway, based on his post.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

First of all, I'm not a life guy, so I'm not pretending to be an expert on life underwriting.

BUT..............
Thyroid cancer, with complete removal of the thyroid, 7 years out, IMO does not appear to put any carrier at an increased risk.

NWM has captive agents. I know that Dave & Vol are not captive with NWM. Is it possible that she was approved at Preferred-Best? I don't know the answer but, why would it be to Numbersnut's advantage to BS us and claim she is?

Again, she was not approved at preferred for a NWM LTC policy, her agent only gave her a quote at preferred rates. The underwriters will obviously decide.

Correct. The rate classes on NML's LTCi are Standard, Class 1 and Class 2. It would not surprise me at all based on this criteria that she got Standard on her LTC.

------------------------------------------------

What he said was: "I have a NWM quote"
So far she hasn't been approved at any rate.

His "very friendly agent" can supply a quote at any premium he wants. If she's approved at Standard, watch that $3,800 jump to $4,500.

Very few NWM agents have any clue about the world of LTCi.

Again, based on NML's rate system, Standard is best class, and the $3800 would be right. If she comes back Class 1 or 2, which I doubt based on numbernut's explanation and how she was rated on life insurance, then you would see a higher premium or modified benefit.

And, for the record, I work with 15 other guys in my office, and besides me, there are at least 8 other guys who are very seasoned at LTC, and sell a bunch of Northwestern AND outside policies. Not sure what it's like in your neck of the woods, but we wear the competition out locally on a daily basis on both knowledge and delivery. Regardless of price. Wear... Them... Out...

I try to be nice and not be all "NM is the best thing since sliced bread" on this forum, but comments like that just get me... can't help myself. I have no doubt your a great guy and great agent Arthur, but I gotta get a jab in there.

 

[ltcadviser]

Hi,
Can a "consumer" butt in here I have a NWM quote of:

Coverage: $3500 per month/6 years/5% inflation, no riders

Premium:
$1900/year for a 39 year old healthy male
$1900/year for my 40 year old wife
($1400/year at $2500 per month coverage)
So $3800 with no riders (includes the 30% spousal discount)

What concerns me are the articles about people who are 3 decades older paying almost the same price?? I don't want to budget for something and then get a 50% increase down the road, but is this an insane rate for LTCi @ ~40 years old?

Thank you

Numbernut,

Very interesting thread. I write a lot of life insurance, in addition to specializing in LTC insurance so I found the comments bythe LTC guys regarding your wife's life insurance underwriting to be somewhat amusing.

I commend you on your foresight in looking into LTC at your
age.

Your concerns about rate increases are valid; but that is probably not a justifiable reason to lock in an higher premium upfront with Northwestern Mutual.

Your goal might be to find a company just like Northwestern Mutual for a more competitive premium.

Northwestern's combined premium for you is $3964.10.

Most guys on this forum will only work through independent brokerage channels and are only familiar with the Genworths, Prudentials, John Hancocks, and Mutual of Omahas of the world.

The most competitive premium through THESE channels is Genworth.

Genworth's combined premium for you is $2239.88 for the exact same benefits.

HOWEVER, the most competitive LTCi premium for Wisconsin residents ages 39/40; Preferred health discount for 39 year old will be offered by NY Life, an A++ company with no history of rate increases---just like NWML.

NY Life does not offer a 6 year benefit period. It does offer 7 year benefit periods. It's premium will be $775.62 for you at Preferred; $1101.90 for your wife at Standard.

Combined premium at $1877.52.

If you were my friend, I would tell you this option is a no-brainer.

So, if your goal is to be with a company with the same financial quality as Northwestern Mutual (A++ AM Best), and be with a company that has had no history of rate increases; then I completely understand why you would not want to apply to companies like Genworth, Mutual of Omaha, Bankers Life or Physicians Mutual---the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th most competiviely priced policies in Wisconsin.

However, considering the most competitive premium is offered by a direct competitor to Northwestern....NY Life, I feel your decision----if you do want LTCi---- is very easy.

NY Life's premium is half of NWML; you receive 7 year benefit periods; and you receive an A++ company with no history of rate increases. With NY Life, i beleive you also receive no "claims offset" language, too; so its 7 year benefit period will actually provide you benefits lasting approximately 9 years on claim vs. only 6 years for NWML whose contract offsets benefit increases by claims paid.

You may contact me through my website if you have any questions.

Jack

 

[CALTCAgent]

NY Life's premium is half of NWML; you receive 7 year benefit periods; and you receive an A++ company with no history of rate increases. With NY Life, you also receive no "claims offset" language, too; so its 7 year benefit period will actually provide you benefits lasting approximately 9 years on claim vs. only 6 years for NWML whose contract offsets benefit increases by claims paid.

Can you give explain the claims offsets benefits increases with NY Life?

You may contact me through my website if you have any questions or need assistance getting a NY Life policy.

Jack

Isn't NY life only available to captive agents?