Ohio National - Demutualization

[Allen Trent]

What matters imo is the revenue to liability ratio. A carrier that is highly leveraged, plus lacks scale, has no other options to raise the capital needed to operate and maintain reserves.

yup, and it isnt just the mutuals. already a public stock company, Allstate sold its Life & Annuity companies last year to a hedge fund/private equity company. If I recall, they gave away either the life or annuity for $0 & sold the other for $2.8B. then, they also sold their headquarters building & laid off 4,000 workers.

Still not sure how a hedge fund can buy a Life & Annuity block of business that the carrier that manufactured the policies cant keep to make a profit, but a hedge fund can somehow invest & make money on.....................................who is going to service all those policies & clients.

Allstate Completes Sale of Life and Annuity Businesses | Business Wire

 

[DHK]

Aren't those companies roughly the same size as ON?

I think Penn is larger while One America is smaller.

Of course, it primarily depends on the amount of other future liabilities to be paid and the ability to meet those future claims. One America has been making their push on asset-based LTC could be a future issue? But I bet that LTC sells 10x LESS than annuity lifetime income benefits.

 

[pfg1]

What matters imo is the revenue to liability ratio. A carrier that is highly leveraged, plus lacks scale, has no other options to raise the capital needed to operate and maintain reserves.

A carrier that has lots of other lines of business, no longer has a financial need to stay dedicated to CV WL... especially when they are getting short on money.... especially considering overfunded WL requires higher reserves per dollar of premium vs. other lines of business.

Look at ON. They had Term, VA, Advisory, & DI sales to keep revenue coming in the door when WL sales tanked. Probably one reason they started to really push DI sales over the past few years and had very aggressive repricing on that product. What does Penn have if CV Life sales tank? Term and 2 crappy FIAs... no way they can make it a year on just that. jmo.

Penn also has VA's, and advisory/investments/securities also (HTK), as well as several other wholly owned interests in both life ins and investments. Yes, they are not a giant company but they've always been strong. They are also very conservative. 2nd oldest company out there, they must be doing something right. (175yrs - 1847)

ON was never as strong as they are, and they hemorrhaged through their VA debacle.

I had a conversation with one of the higher ups a few years ago (pre-Covid), brilliant guy. He said they will do whatever they have to in order to remain a Mutual. That was a main concern of theirs.

Certainly you never know about any company, but my money is on them being around a long time - and as a real mutual.

 

[somarco]

A met Life 50 year agent that taught LUTC in my area was the last remaining agent covering half the state of michigan & was assigned tens of thousands of policies to service.

Was @chumpsfromoxford a Met Life agent?

 

[Allen Trent]

Was @chumpsfromoxford a Met Life agent?

Which one, Laurel or Hardy? Plus, would be tough for Laurel to be Met life agent back in the day as both wasnt he deaf and/or mute......well maybe that was just part of their act

Loved their movie Chump from Oxford

 

[somarco]

Which one, Laurel or Hardy? Plus, would be tough for Laurel to be Met life agent back in the day as both wasnt he deaf and/or mute......well maybe that was just part of their act

Loved their movie Chump from Oxford

Ed Harris AKA Chumps from Oxford. Might be before your time.

According to Google, Stan Laurel was deaf, at least according to his draft registration

Bill Porter had CP and became a top distributor for Watkins products

 

[DHK]

I had a conversation with one of the higher ups a few years ago (pre-Covid), brilliant guy. He said they will do whatever they have to in order to remain a Mutual. That was a main concern of theirs.

Certainly you never know about any company, but my money is on them being around a long time - and as a real mutual.

While I'd bet on Penn too, the people at ONL kept saying the same things... until it didn't matter anymore.

 

[somarco]

And . . . @Allen Trent , Oliver Hardy was from Harlem, GA . . . there is an absolutely charming Laurel & Hardy museum there.

Home of the Laurel and Hardy Museum of Georgia

Harlem, GA is nothing like Harlem, NY

 

[Tahoe Ray]

Ed Harris AKA Chumps from Oxford. Might be before your time.

According to Google, Stan Laurel was deaf, at least according to his draft registration

Bill Porter had CP and became a top distributor for Watkins products

Sadly, I believe Chumps passed away from Groat's disease.

 

[Allen Trent]

Might be before your time

Before my time? I literally was talking about a movie that came out in 1939. How young could I be to know that within 10 min of your post:.