Pacific Life Policy Performed 22%

[GSantos]

I feel the need to say to those that can't read between the lines. In my case, ONE of strategies in Pacific Life earned 22%. I've seen reports of policy's with the multiplier earned 63%. How can people not see the potential in an IUL?

Update on the case plan:

The client specifically took an alternate loan and arbitraged the cash value. Originally there was an $82,000 loan and the client they've been making payments on the loan of $12,000 a month. While cash flowing from their investment.

All while the cash value is still in the policy earning interest. (I've shifted into fixed accounts in the policy for the time being as interest rates rise and equities drop).

 

[Allen Trent]

The client specifically took an alternate loan and arbitraged the cash value. Originally there was an $82,000 loan and the client they've been making payments on the loan of $12,000 a month. While cash flowing from their investment

So, they were able to make an investment into something with $82,000 that net of investment costs is turning out enough in profits to generate after tax of $12,000 per month to pay off the loan?

I am now less impressed with a 22% of 63% IUL index return. I want to hear more about this investment the client is making an annualized 250% return on. Only a couple of "investments" I am aware of that might generate 250% in returns & those investments are usually only offered to politicians, presidents children, mafia kingpins, top of food chain drug dealers, pimps, Joel Osteen, bernie madoff, etc. Investments like this usually have stipulation that there is some excess profit for the "Big Guy"

 

[GSantos]

So, they were able to make an investment into something with $82,000 that net of investment costs is turning out enough in profits to generate after tax of $12,000 per month to pay off the loan?

I am now less impressed with a 22% of 63% IUL index return. I want to hear more about this investment the client is making an annualized 250% return on. Only a couple of "investments" I am aware of that might generate 250% in returns & those investments are usually only offered to politicians, presidents children, mafia kingpins, top of food chain drug dealers, pimps, Joel Osteen, bernie madoff, etc. Investments like this usually have stipulation that there is some excess profit for the "Big Guy"

Doug Andrew's Lazer Fund earned 63% in his Pacific Life IUL has all of it documented on YouTube videos.

The earned over 200% on their $82k legally using the IUL as the vehicle to preserve their wealth. Seems probably when you see how many top 1%er's are arbitraging their life insurance policy's.With proper risk management and it's more than possible. Doesn't mean they'll be that profitable every year however, for the years they are profitable they're overfunding their policy which is where the flexibility of the IUL shines.

 

[Allen Trent]

Doug Andrew's Lazer Fund earned 63% in his Pacific Life IUL has all of it documented on YouTube videos.

The earned over 200% on their $82k legally using the IUL as the vehicle to preserve their wealth. Seems probably when you see how many top 1%er's are arbitraging their life insurance policy's.With proper risk management and it's more than possible. Doesn't mean they'll be that profitable every year however, for the years they are profitable they're overfunding their policy which is where the flexibility of the IUL shines.

So, they made over 200% by arbitrage by taking loans from their IUL to then use the loan money to put back into their IUL. I'm flat or down index years, how much would they have to earn to cover the compounding loan interest and the load fees on the premium going into the IUL?

Earlier you said they paid back the loan from the investment bought with the loan. So are you saying they invested the loan money in another IUL, then took loans out of the new IUL to pay back the loan on the older IUL? Just trying to follow along & wanting you to get this story figured out so you can later concisely state it if you get called to the stand or in front of an insurance dept regulator

 

[REI_Velocity]

I feel the need to say to those that can't read between the lines. In my case, ONE of strategies in Pacific Life earned 22%. I've seen reports of policy's with the multiplier earned 63%. How can people not see the potential in an IUL?

Update on the case plan:

The client specifically took an alternate loan and arbitraged the cash value. Originally there was an $82,000 loan and the client they've been making payments on the loan of $12,000 a month. While cash flowing from their investment.

All while the cash value is still in the policy earning interest. (I've shifted into fixed accounts in the policy for the time being as interest rates rise and equities drop).

Yeah, something isn't right here. The issue with IUL claims is I only see the claims. Where is the proof? I'd love to see an actual IUL making a 63% return. I bet $100 that never happened. Or, are we playing games with the numbers. For example, if I make 1% on my money this year, and then 2% on my money next year, I made a 100% return year over year on the % rates, but only a 1% spread.

I want IULs to be good, but there are so many issues with them. Will be interesting to see how they do after this years bloodbath in the markets. A couple consecutive 0's on the books will be devastating.

 

[GSantos]

So, they made over 200% by arbitrage by taking loans from their IUL to then use the loan money to put back into their IUL. I'm flat or down index years, how much would they have to earn to cover the compounding loan interest and the load fees on the premium going into the IUL?

Earlier you said they paid back the loan from the investment bought with the loan. So are you saying they invested the loan money in another IUL, then took loans out of the new IUL to pay back the loan on the older IUL? Just trying to follow along & wanting you to get this story figured out so you can later concisely state it if you get called to the stand or in front of an insurance dept regulator

No you're not following at all. But hey keep dominating the insurance forums you're doing great!

 

[scagnt83]

I want IULs to be good, but there are so many issues with them. Will be interesting to see how they do after this years bloodbath in the markets. A couple consecutive 0's on the books will be devastating.

I could fill a book with how much you dont know about IULs.... or life insurance in general.

Your comments are the most ignorant I have seen in a long time.

 

[Allen Trent]

A couple consecutive 0's on the books will be devastating.

when you say consecutive 0s, do you mean 2 months in a row, as people can have 12 index segments per year? Very rare for all 12 months of index beginning & ending levels to all be 0 or down. Plus, a person could actually have net positive amounts credited even if the index was down for a given calendar year. 1 years drop in an index drops the beginning point of the index segment for the following 12 month comparison.

It will take a lot more than 2 consecutive months of posting 0 or even 2 consecutive years. the index changes are the most unlikely part of an IUL to cause a blood bath. the bigger risk is a low interest rate environment causing par/cap rates to stay or go really low, or carrier mismanagement causing changes to underlying internal cost to rise, but similar risk is with my WL policies if the carrier decides to sell my large WL policies to a pension fund or private equity & the dividend is dropped or ended entirely

 

[Allen Trent]

No you're not following at all. But hey keep dominating the insurance forums you're doing great!

Yeah, I am really dominating at 1 or 2 posts a day over 6 years. where will I get those 15 minutes back?

I honestly am trying to follow this concept of 200% returns from IUL loans. BTW, I love the flexibility of UL/IUL policies for myself, family or people that are high income, high net worth that need flexibility in funding that cant always be acheived with many WL PUAR offerings that have some flexibility, but not complete flexibility

 

[REI_Velocity]

when you say consecutive 0s, do you mean 2 months in a row, as people can have 12 index segments per year? Very rare for all 12 months of index beginning & ending levels to all be 0 or down. Plus, a person could actually have net positive amounts credited even if the index was down for a given calendar year. 1 years drop in an index drops the beginning point of the index segment for the following 12 month comparison.

It will take a lot more than 2 consecutive months of posting 0 or even 2 consecutive years. the index changes are the most unlikely part of an IUL to cause a blood bath. the bigger risk is a low interest rate environment causing par/cap rates to stay or go really low, or carrier mismanagement causing changes to underlying internal cost to rise, but similar risk is with my WL policies if the carrier decides to sell my large WL policies to a pension fund or private equity & the dividend is dropped or ended entirely

Any idea why people can't post their initial IUL illustrations and actual performance for the past 20 years or so?