Safeco's study "The State Of Women in Insurance"

[Allen Trent]

Do you stay awake at night wondering when the sun will explode?

Lol. It is dark at night, how could the sun explode during the day when the sun is dark.

 

[Markthebroker]

Lol. It is dark at night, how could the sun explode during the day when the sun is dark.

When it explodes, I am sure it will be because of the tyrannical patriarchy.

 

[shawnmwalker]

 

[somarco]

Lol. It is dark at night, how could the sun explode during the day when the sun is dark.

Delayed until you wake up . . . you can also catch the instant replay when you finally roll out of bed.

When it explodes, I am sure it will be because of the tyrannical patriarchy.

Is that anything like the Tyrannosaurus Rex?

 

[scagnt83]

The perceived "attacks" from factually accurate information shows how fragile some "mens" egos are.

Anyone who has worked more than a year in this industry knows what kind of bias there is against women in this industry.

This thread is a perfect example of it.

A bunch of old white men talking about how women dont deserve the same pay men make.... or are unable to make the same... or dont want to make the same... anything but actually acknowledging the issue

 

[scagnt83]

By "discrepancy", you mean women choosing to work less hours, choosing to work less overtime, and choosing to accept positions that pay less. That's not a discrepancy, that's the direct result of a clear and willing choice.

In the free market system, I expect they are choosing to make less money in insurance for a variety of reasons.

I know it's very trendy these days to be a victim. But I have far too much respect for women too let you paint them as victims. They are completely in control of the situation.

You are full of sh*t.

I have heard hiring managers in the insurance industry outright say they are not hiring any more women.... or limit the amount of women they hire.

Ive seen managers give men leniency they do not give the women in the office... from time off, to production requirements, to leads, etc etc.

Ive heard experienced agents who were supposed to be office mentors say they wont put in effort to help women producers.

Ive seen old white men walk out of meetings headed by women managers because "they had nothing valuable to say".

Ive seen trainers brush off womens questions as (not relevant) but answer all the mens questions in detail.

Managers say they spend less time with the women because they will fail at a higher rate than the men.

Ive heard managers talk about not hiring any of the "ugly" women who interview.

I saw a woman only get a few days leave after having a baby... but a man in the office was given a 2 week vacation the very same week.

After 15 years in the industry at multiple offices/agencies, Ive seen the bigotry and it is very much present. Your posts are just another example of it.

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And just because a women chooses to work a lesser job than qualified for... doesnt mean they want to work that job... they are often forced to work that job due to not being enabled to work their chosen career due to life constraints. (often constraints the career does not allow for)

 

[Allen Trent]

The perceived "attacks" from factually accurate information shows how fragile some "mens" egos are.

Anyone who has worked more than a year in this industry knows what kind of bias there is against women in this industry.

This thread is a perfect example of it.

A bunch of old white men talking about how women dont deserve the same pay men make.... or are unable to make the same... or dont want to make the same... anything but actually acknowledging the issue

Fair enough, but what explains the pay discrepancy in the 35-40% of companies owned or managed by women.

My mother was pregnant at 15, had 3 kids by 22. Completed college by 30. Started as accounting clerk & within 10 years was the Controller & CFO of a regional heating & cooling company. She flew past many white men in her career. Not that her 1 example changes overall data

In the carrier I work primarily with, the VP of Marketing & 3 of 4 Marketing Directors are Women. 4 of 6 Marketing Managers are women. Their pay levels are the same whether they are men or women.

PS-. I do agree with you that I have seen on rare occasion some men disrespect women in management, but it was the exception & not the rule & those individuals were moved out to pasture pretty quickly. That seemed to be more of an issue in 10-20 years ago.

 

[scagnt83]

What part of the industry are you referring to? Sales, office work?

The stats are for the same job title. Not the same industry.

That being said, Ive seen some rock star agents who are female who outproduce 99% of men agents. But if you take the time to talk to them and they open up about their career, they often had more hurdles to overcome and hoops to jump through to make it to that level.

I was friends with an old (75+) female agent who was very accomplished. Had been an agency owner, regional manager, etc. She had owned an agency with her husband and they were partners. She once told me there was no way she would have made it to that level in the industry without having a "male partner" to help give her "credibility" among industry peers, especially on the corporate level.

So forget the stats and studies. Just talk to the women who are actually in those high level positions and ask them. They will tell you about the hurdles they faced, often enacted upon them by their male peers.

 

[scagnt83]

Fair enough, but what explains the pay discrepancy in the 35-40% of companies owned or managed by women.

Because decisions in a big company are not made by one person.

And because it is a cultural issue, not just an issue with "men". Corporate culture is very much ingrained in our society as a whole. A female HR manager who came from a corporate culture that rewarded her for "minimizing employee leave" is not used to granting generous maternity leave... or a flexible schedule to enable caring for children... etc. It takes a lot of time to break old cultural norms within a business. Just because a women owns it or controls it, does not mean it will immediately be dynamically different than any other business... they are still hiring the same people who are used to the same cultural norms.

Also, female CEOs are beholden to shareholders. Female Owners are beholden to those who funded the company. The company is expected to operate at a certain level, and in a certain way, especially when there are investors funding the company. That often means extreme pressure to operate in ways traditionally seen as being the most profitable... meaning time off for family is minimal.

 

[scagnt83]

PS-. I do agree with you that I have seen on rare occasion some men disrespect women in management, but it was the exception & not the rule & those individuals were moved out to pasture pretty quickly. That seemed to be more of an issue in 10-20 years ago.

My corporate experience was 10-15 years ago. So hopefully things have changed some.

But it was even worse 20-40 years ago. Ive heard stories from women agents who repeatedly had to fend off what was essentially sexual assault from male colleagues.... and it being joked about in meetings by other male colleagues who failed to see that groping a woman without permission is sexual assault... what do you think that did for their career advancement? How well do you think they sold insurance for the rest of the day after being sexually assaulted? How well do you think they sold insurance the day their manager publicly joked about them not appreciating being sexually assaulted? Or what about after the manager joked about her being on her period and being moody? Or publicly joked about her sexual life at home with her husband? etc. etc. etc.

15 years ago, agents under a certain manager in a certain NYL office were required to meet at a strip club for "lunch meetings". Female agents who sat in his lap and got a lap dance along with him were given actual leads, the ones who didnt got lists to cold call, the one lady who refused to meet there was written up... she ended up filing a lawsuit and eventually corporate did something about the situation.

And its not like just one older female agent Ive known had it rough. Literally every older female agent Ive really got to know had HUGE hurdles to overcome in being a successful agent that had nothing to do with the job... but were inflicted by male colleagues simply because they were a woman.

Besides what I have personally seen. What I have heard from womens actual experiences is much much worse. The older the female agent, the worse stories they have usually.