Sat. Night Massacre AKA Senate Vote

[Crapgame44]

The upside: 1. Bill can still be defeated before the final vote by the people by keeping the pressure on 2. Those 4 so called moderate Dem. senators have signed their death warrants in next years election giving the Rep.'s at least a filibuster going forward
The downside: We are now perouisly closer to Gov. healthcare and all its consequeses.
The upside Part 2. : If Oboma signs a bill with a Gov. option, taxpayer funded abortion , etc., he will have signed his own death warrant for a second term ( on top of his disaster so far)

 

[Winter_123]

We are now perouisly closer to Gov. healthcare and all its consequeses.
)

Actually I believe this bill decreases the chances of government takeover of healthcare. The most that we can hope for is a bill that is fraught with so many problems that it will collapse from problems on both the left and the right and then they will have to start over with scaled back expectations.. When viewed from that angle, this bill is the absolute perfect storm to achieve that strategy.

Health reform and increased government intervention is coming though. That has been clear for several years. For those who have not accepted that reality there really is nothing that can be said to help them. That doesnt mean that public option and mandate and all of that cant be fended off for a while longer because that is very doable.

Guaranteed issue and subsidies/credits for government approved plans are coming and those will be gamechangers in a major way. Most people here accept that now which is good. A year ago, not so much. Now the discussion is around being happy that the government has not precluded a future role for agents and trying to figure out whether the commissions will be 3% or 5%.

 

[TXINSURANCE]

The most that we can hope for is a bill that is fraught with so many problems that it will collapse from problems on both the left and the right and then they will have to start over with scaled back expectations..

Keep dreaming.

 

[Charpress]

I think nearly everyone grossly underestimates the extent of corruption in Congress.

Mary Landrieu several weeks ago: "I cannot vote for this bill"

Mary Landrieu after having $300 million put in the bill earmarked for her. "I think I can vote for this bill."

With $300 million she can further consolidate her power with specific spending of this pork where she directs. The money will be wasted, as it usually is in these situations. Folks, we MUST get term limits passed to stop this corruption. The most important legislation this century is being bought and sold, not voted on based on the merits.

 

[Winter_123]

Keep dreaming.

Oh you think this bill is going to be passed and Obama is going to sign it by the end of December Ahhhh..........I don't think so.

This is going to be a bloodbath. And then they will either amend the bejeesus out of it or re-introduce it piecemeal to pick up the areas where there is consensus such as on GI and subsidy/credit. Plus it will take us pretty near up until March to get there.

What week in December do you think Mr. Obama will be signing this? Oops. Let's not forget about that pesky little vote in the House too.

If the public option is taken out then that could accelerate things considerably but then it is not the same bill. My comments were about this bill.as presented.

 

[briko3]

97% of bills that go to open debate get passed.

 

[Winter_123]

97% of bills that go to open debate get passed.

That is a factoid that is neither here nor there. I dont question that at some point a bill with the same number may pass. The question is: how does it get amended along the way. Whether the bill ends out with mandate, abortion, medicare cuts etc makes a big, big difference to many people. Some bill is going to form the shell for having the health reform debate. A couple weeks ago we thought it was the house bill. Now it appears it is going to be the senate bill. My comments are about what will pass or not pass are around the content, not whether some bill with the same number will pass sometime.

Also, even if I were to accept your 97% factoid for the sake of argument, I would suggest back that we can perhaps agree that the number of bills that pass (unamended) where there were almost not enough votes to even get it out on the floor is probably less than 97%, eh?

It's going to be a bloodbath and if it is not a bloodbath it will only be because they cannot come up with enough votes to either amend or close debate so they just let it hang there.

Change you can believe in.

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

Actually there's not much left to debate. They'll agree on the abortion and tax language and this will be on Obama's desk before Christmas.

The right has been wrong about this every single step of the way since back in January.

This is a few "T's and I's" dotted. Pay no attention to Leiberman - no one else does.

 

[Winter_123]

Actually there's not much left to debate. They'll agree on the abortion and tax language and this will be on Obama's desk before Christmas.

The right has been wrong about this every single step of the way since back in January.

This is a few "T's and I's" dotted. Pay no attention to Leiberman - no one else does.

Yup. This will begin to take some final shape........as we get toward March.

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

It's semantics at this point. Anyone opposed will be easily bought off with concessions for their state.