The GM Decision

[senior-advisor-indiana]

These are the people that are usually bitchin' and moanin' that they're on a "fixed income" because they've only got $800,000 in CDs.

"The Greatest (entitlement) Generation"

You just painted a picture of AL when he retires.

 

[retread]

Briefly, there was a rulling by the EEOC last December that said employers can require over 65 workers or retirees to go primary and medicare and the company pays secondary as long as they end out with the same basic level of benefits for younger workers. Federal law is based on an interpretation of EEOC regulations. The EEOC changed its regulations to clarify when it did not like the federal courts intepretation of its regs.

Bottom line is that the rules have changed or have been "clarified." Take your pick.

Winter

You are half-right. Active employees over 65 must be afforded the same benefits as under 65, but not retirees. I get retirement benefits through American Airlines (which I believe qualifies as a "large" employer), and the rules for the last 7 years of my retirement have not changed. When I turned 65, Medicare became my primary insurance and the group insurance became secondary.

 

[xrac]

If they made a half way descent and reliable vehicle and got rid of the unions maybe they would stand a chance. My family worked for GM for years in the 70's, 80's and we bought their piece of $#@! vehicles. This is why people went to Honda and Toyota. You can say what you want but the core of the issue is the product.

I have to agree totally with this. The cars of the 70's and 80's were pure junk. One of my friends had a Buick with a diesel engine. Finally had to pay to have a gasoline engine put in or junk the car. My secretary had a new Olds Toronada and it was constantly broke down.

In 1997 I wanted to purchase a new car. Due to family connections I could buy anything GM offered at employee pricing and I had a $1,200 rebate applicable from a GM credit card. I could not bring myself to buy GM although I test drove several different cars because the QUALITY just was not there on anything I drove compared to the Japanese. I wound up with a Toyota Avalon.

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

Have to watch what an "American" car is anyway. When I was selling, most of what we had on the lot was built in Mexico.

 

[jdeasy]

If they made a half way descent and reliable vehicle and got rid of the unions maybe they would stand a chance.

My family worked for GM for years in the 70's, 80's and we bought their piece of $#@! vehicles. This is why people went to Honda and Toyota.

You can say what you want but the core of the issue is the product.

Exactly how would getting rid of the unions help GM?

 

[TXINSURANCE]

Exactly how would getting rid of the unions help GM?

When you have janitors making $60/hr with benefits factored something is very wrong.

I believe the average labor cost at GM with benefits is $43/hour.

And if you can explain to me how you can turn a profit at an average of $43/hour I am all ears.

Looking at both GM and F stock prices clearly their model is not working or sustainable.

Future unfunded obligations - sounds a lot like our federal government!

These contracts are negotiated by the Unions.

 

[theinuranceguy]

I live in Dayton... Very Big GM town... Half the people I call on have retired from there, and I left them alone...

They are now closing down a lot of plants around here, its sad... People used to make $40 an hours plus benefits are now putting up new siding on my home...

Very Sad.

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

Hmmmm.....so it's not sustainable to pay people $36 an hour to screw a bumper on a car and also give full benefits? Who would have guessed

 

[jdeasy]

When you have janitors making $60/hr with benefits factored something is very wrong.

I believe the average labor cost at GM with benefits is $43/hour.

And if you can explain to me how you can turn a profit at an average of $43/hour I am all ears.

Looking at both GM and F stock prices clearly their model is not working or sustainable.

Future unfunded obligations - sounds a lot like our federal government!

These contracts are negotiated by the Unions.

Hmmmm, I wonder who those unions negotiated with?? I wonder how much the non union Toyota workers make in Georgetown, Ky?

And, is it possible that those workers are working without benefits, too?

Or, could there be a management problem? Heaven forbid that people that don't have a clue would look at the real reasons.

 

[SportsNut]

Hmmmm, I wonder who those unions negotiated with?? I wonder how much the non union Toyota workers make in Georgetown, Ky?

And, is it possible that those workers are working without benefits, too?

Or, could there be a management problem? Heaven forbid that people that don't have a clue would look at the real reasons.

I have been told that the Toyota assembly workers are making appx 25 per hr, plus bennies. All non-union. Clean, efficient and very productive. A positive, team attitude place to work.

The new Honda plant in Greensburg, Ind is close to getting up and running and I know few ppl who work there. They are also projecting that they will be making 25-28 hr within 3 months (actually prior to full production).

Obviously if the workplace is efficient and they produce a high quality and highly desirable vehicle that sells well in any type of market, (Toyota, Honda, etc) then the labor costs @ 25-30 bucks per hr are not problem. It is when a protectionist union harbors inefficient employees who are making far more, that the problems manifest. Hence, the Amrican Auto Manufacturers... all of them.