- 5,058
I guess this is going to dependent on you're work history, but I've been in sale my entire adult life and in my experience, "Employers" who break 1099 rules, do it so they can have the best of both worlds.
Working Before Being Officially Hired???
- Thread starter Toolcat
- Start date
I guess this is going to dependent on you're work history, but I've been in sale my entire adult life and in my experience, "Employers" who break 1099 rules, do it so they can have the best of both worlds.
- 10,583
With almost all the big captive companies (NYL, Mass, NWM, Pru, Guardian, etc) you are considered a statutory employee.
Your quoted text even says it "for one primary company".
Take when I started at NYL for instance.
I had not been in the business but for 2 minutes and they recruited me. I still fell under what they considered as a "newbie" to the business and was offered what they call a "tas" contract. It stands for Training Assistance... and i cant remember the last part.
But it was their training contract.
They provided me with three years of training and I was given bonuses on commission earned.
If I had been a seasoned agent coming on board, I would not have had the same training bonuses.
(yes new hires who are experienced do get a bonus set up, but its not that much)
The green agents where required to be at every training session, period. Plus there was a week long training class to begin with that was required.
The experienced guys where "encouraged" to go to all of this, but not technically "required" to do it.
Also, as a green agent under a training contract, if I repeatedly missed training they could take me off of my tas contract and not give me anymore bonuses....
If it is a large insurance company, they have HUGE legal departments that vet every contract that they create with Federal and State laws.
Its legal.
Think about it from their point of view. You are not doing any income producing activities for them until you make sales. And you are not guaranteed to make any sales.
So it makes no sense for them to go through the expense of training you plus pay you directly for the training, when after the training there is no guarantee that you will produce any income for them.
If you worked in the back office inputing data, it would be guaranteed that you would be doing an income producing task after training. So it would make sense in that situation. But not for an agent.
- 25,488
If I am hiring a couple agents. They have to wait a week to get their number. Neither is working for pay now.
One comes in for training on their own dime. The other say "no" I'll wait till you start paying to teach me. In a week when they both have their numbers. Which one am I going to offer more help?
This is commission sales. Not some Federal jobs program.
One comes in for training on their own dime. The other say "no" I'll wait till you start paying to teach me. In a week when they both have their numbers. Which one am I going to offer more help?
This is commission sales. Not some Federal jobs program.
- 10,583
Pretty much!
This is commission work.
While you have guidance and support, this is very much like starting your own business. If you dont acquire clients, you dont eat.
Except instead of having to pay for your own office, support, and supplies, you have all of that provided to you... including training (which is the most important thing)
Sales jobs only make the company money if the person makes sales.
Other than sales, you provide no service to the company; if you did, you would be paid for training.
Ask yourself this: would YOU pay somebody to train when there is no guarantee that they will make your business any money????
Let me know if you would and I will come work for you for a week!!!!!!!!!
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I'm not sure where the "I know my rights" vibe is coming from, but the sooner the OP gets past "salary, allowance, etc" and understands he is entering an entrepreneural career - the better off he is going to be. Practically every agency-type company has pre-hire requirements that involve both joint production as well as training... and more importantly, like Wino said... the guy I'm looking for is the guy who says "how soon can I get some training", not "where's my check?".
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Most new agents work without pay...........
When I first started in insurance years ago the company I worked for demanded training sessions, phone sessions, meetings etc etc. All as a 1099 independent contractor.
Were they mandatory? - This was their response "no they are not mandatory. But if you don't come then you won't receive any leads"
Sadly, being so green we all turned up and drank the kool aid!
Its just the nature of the business.......
When I first started in insurance years ago the company I worked for demanded training sessions, phone sessions, meetings etc etc. All as a 1099 independent contractor.
Were they mandatory? - This was their response "no they are not mandatory. But if you don't come then you won't receive any leads"
Sadly, being so green we all turned up and drank the kool aid!
Its just the nature of the business.......
- 8,707
Personally if I needed to wait a week for a writing number I would be jumping on training. However I once encountered a different experience..
I was an experienced agent and the manager said while maintaining my contract with the other company to come in and go out and write business with him and he would write it under a house account number then assign the accounts to me after I came on board and produced $5K of commissions...I passed...I couldn't believe he wanted me to maintain my existing contracts (which included B/D registration) and sell for another entity without disclosing it on my OBA...Then would hold hostage the work completed until I sold a certain amount for him...Just didn't pass my smell test.
I was an experienced agent and the manager said while maintaining my contract with the other company to come in and go out and write business with him and he would write it under a house account number then assign the accounts to me after I came on board and produced $5K of commissions...I passed...I couldn't believe he wanted me to maintain my existing contracts (which included B/D registration) and sell for another entity without disclosing it on my OBA...Then would hold hostage the work completed until I sold a certain amount for him...Just didn't pass my smell test.
- Thread starter
- #18
I have told them I am willing to work out my home, which I have faithfully done. I needed to know what other people think so that I can make a beter decision. I do not want to lose this job. It just struck me as funny when they asked me to come in. Thanks for your insight.
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I have told them I will train out of my home which I am currently doing. I have already put 100 hours plus into this job without a dime in compensation. I am new to this industry and need some insight into common practices. Thanks for your help.
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- 15,041
Then get your butt in their and be a sponge. Learn everything you can. Ultimately it is in your best interest to learn as much as you can now. Just don't shut off your mind, now all GAs are created equal. Some do not have your's or your clients' best interests at heart.
At the end of the day, you won't care about this week. Either you'll be successful and it was well worth it, or you'll fail and it was just another week in your life.
Just make sure they teach you how to prospect. If you can prospect, you'll save a fortune in marketing.
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