Working Before Being Officially Hired???

[VolAgent]

I don't follow your logic. I'm not sure what "if you want to be rich you must follow one simple rule...do what rich people do" has to do with this. I know your too smart to suggest that successfull agents spend their time sitting in free training classes. I'd also hazard the guess that your too smart to suggest that successfull sales managers spend all their time teaching free training classes.

Why then would a quote whose (I know inamimate objects don't typically take on that pronoun but apparently I'm not smart enough to come up with something more grammatically correct that doesn't sounds awkward to me right now) message is if you want something that you see others' having the simplest way to get it is to mimick what they do or did have to do with the notion of unpaid pre-training requirements?

Perhaps I should change it from rich people to successful people. My point is, successful people do what it takes to succeed, they don't sit at home and bitch and moan.

I do agree with you that the GA and sales manager should have some skin in the game and really be motivated to see this guy succeed. But the fact is, ultimately his failure or success rests upon his efforts. The sales manager cannot make him successful, he can only help in the process and speed him up.

 

[xrac]

Yup, I knew that was going to get a bunch of people's panties in a bunch, but I did it anyway. Why? Because I'm a terrible liar and a huge cynic. But, I'll do my best to address everyone.



I don't follow your logic. I'm not sure what "if you want to be rich you must follow one simple rule...do what rich people do" has to do with this. I know your too smart to suggest that successfull agents spend their time sitting in free training classes. I'd also hazard the guess that your too smart to suggest that successfull sales managers spend all their time teaching free training classes.

Why then would a quote whose (I know inamimate objects don't typically take on that pronoun but apparently I'm not smart enough to come up with something more grammatically correct that doesn't sounds awkward to me right now) message is if you want something that you see others' having the simplest way to get it is to mimick what they do or did have to do with the notion of unpaid pre-training requirements?




And how do you know I was speaking to you directly Larry? My thought is if you felt compelled to make that comment based on mine, there's a part of you that feels vulnerable in regards to what you said potentially having a BS element to it. Remember, I never said anything about your comments being BS, you did. Chances are good your subconsious was trumping your consious mind.

But let's not partake in something so trivial as "he put me down" being the focal point of our discussion, we're both way too old for that. Here's an opportunity to address this idea head on. Fight me on merit not on prose. You've been around for a long time, you ought to be able to come up with more than I don't like your abrasive attitude. And I'd enjoy the thoughtful conversation, I'm rather certain your more than capable of it.



My issue isn't with training agents, far from it. My issue is with the notion of paying a training salary that is a draw against future commissions, or telling the agent they must produce a certain amount and essentially telling them the difference between products and then sending them out to fight for dinner, all the while keeping a significant portion of what they produce anyway. And when questioned about it hiding behind the notion that "hey, you need to be a self-starting entrepreneur to make it in this business" coupled with the "you want money? Sell something" mentality. Simply put, if that's your training model, why not just go indy from the beginning, my chances for survival are about the same, and at least I'll probably make a little more on the business I do pay for since I don't have agency overhead and a sales manager to pay for.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to suggest that there's a flaw behind finding people who are, or turning people into agents who value the task of producing business. You only get paid for doing one thing, paying for business. And I totally agree with the idea that new agents ought to be willing to take extra time--even on their own--to learn about their products. What I'm more concerned with is the huge split in who is committing to this thing. The agency and sales manager have a tiny commitment to all this, while they ask the agent to be very dedicated. I was always told that if you don't have skin in the game, you won't appreciate what you're doing, and likely won't commit to it like you should. I maintain that a large portion of agent failure--though not all by no means--is the lack of commitment that career shops make to their new agents. They are more interested in turning through as many bodies as they can in hopes that they'll find some good ones. I understand that not everyone is a good match, but I think a lot more effort could be put into this. The most successfull sales manager I know has a huge degree of dedication to his new agents, and it seems to work, very low turnover and he's has the highest producing sales team in the entire company (very large and well known insurance company).

And on the paycheck note. Entrepreneurs need to be bottom line thinkers. They need to be doing things that make them money. I've heard a lot of sales managers and fellow seasoned agents utter those words. It seems as though some of us only like that notion when it suits us.

All good points. There is definitely too much of throwing as many people against the wall as possible hoping that someone sticks.

 

[Larry Tew]

...And how do you know I was speaking to you directly Larry? My thought is if you felt compelled to make that comment based on mine, there's a part of you that feels vulnerable in regards to what you said potentially having a BS element to it. Remember, I never said anything about your comments being BS, you did. Chances are good your subconsious was trumping your consious mind.

But let's not partake in something so trivial as "he put me down" being the focal point of our discussion, we're both way too old for that. Here's an opportunity to address this idea head on. Fight me on merit not on prose. You've been around for a long time, you ought to be able to come up with more than I don't like your abrasive attitude. And I'd enjoy the thoughtful conversation, I'm rather certain your more than capable of it...

Since my post used the word "entrepreneural", who else would you be referring to? To have my position on the issue referred to as BS shows a lapse in basic courtesy. It's either factually inaccurate or it's a difference of opinion. Do you see all opposing views as BS? Don't worry. It didn't ruin my day. And to all the rest of your comments about vulnerability, subconscious, etc... I don't consider it BS, I just don't agree with your assesment.

As far as debating your comments, what's to debate? It's your opinion.

 

[BNTRS]

Since my post used the word "entrepreneural", who else would you be referring to? To have my position on the issue referred to as BS shows a lapse in basic courtesy. It's either factually inaccurate or it's a difference of opinion. Do you see all opposing views as BS? Don't worry. It didn't ruin my day. And to all the rest of your comments about vulnerability, subconscious, etc... I don't consider it BS, I just don't agree with your assesment.

As far as debating your comments, what's to debate? It's your opinion.

Me thinks that perhpas there was a bit of a misunderstanding that took place here. But I'm happy it didn't ruin your day.

Seriously though, the now infamous "BS" comment was not made directly with you in mind.

 

[Larry Tew]

At the end of the day, it's all good. Let's talk about something less inflammatory... like religion or politics.

 

[Toolcat]

Toolcat, legal or illegal you will need the training. You need to worry about learning your products, rather than thinking about your draw. t hall

As I have said I have been training online and at home.

 

[Norwayguy]

As I have said I have been training online and at home.

Toolcat, Please do not take this the wrong way. But as has been pointed out on this forum many times the value of a company for a new agent such as yourself is the local manager and what they can bring to the table for you. If your new manager wants you in the office so he can go over the products with you it could be that he wants to make sure to point out the more important points for sales purposes, making sure the applications are completed correctly etc. If your not recieving a training subsidy or allowance anyway what difference is it if your at home or at the office.

I guess what I am getting at is if you have found a manager that you believe can help you succeed in this business then why are you not taking him up on this in person training?

Can you learn the products at home, Definatly yes, I'm doing to right now for a new carriers products but then I'm independent and its my only choice.

I don't know what type of manager that your going under but I have dealt with more than a couple in my career and many worked in the following fashion, they would tell me what they wanted (in this case getting going on training in the office) those that came in went to the top of the pile those that didn't went lower...Those that came in and asked for more help got it those that didn't were left to wither on the vine....The exception is those that come in to this business and just hit it like gang busters right from the start the managers always seem to make time for those people. Make sure your the squeaky wheel anytime you have a question get as much help as you need it...Don't worry about the training allowance so much eventually all this help ends and you better be able to sell something....It could be that I feel differently because the way my training subsidy worked at NYL is that it was additional commission but only if I hit certain numbers and the clock started as soon as I was appointed so jumping on training before the clock started was important.

 

[WinoBlues]

As I have said I have been training online and at home.

OK, Yes it is wrong for you.
You should stop going to the office.
If they do not like it, Quit.

 

[scagnt83]

As I have said I have been training online and at home.

If its that big of a deal for you to go into an office for a little bit of training, then you should probably just find another line of work.

In this business you will do lots of stuff that you dont get directly paid for, but it facilitates and enables you to do the stuff that you do get paid for. If you plan to make it in this business I would get used to it now.

Face to face training is almost always more effective than remote training. Plus, the life lessons and experiences of the trainer can not be conveyed to you at your house. There is usually a good bit more than just what you can read in a book, or even a video.
Plus, being in the office you will be able to interact with more experienced agents and draw off of their knowledge.

The knowledge I gained from working out of an office with other agents was invaluable. And I learned more from experienced agents whom I spoke to casually and even brought in to work cases with me, than I ever did in the training classes.

This career is not about getting X amount for every little task that you do.
Its about gaining knowledge about the products/process/industry and then utilizing them in the field.

When I was at NYL I saw many new agents come in and try to work from home (they where required to be at mandatory training sessions in person).
To be honest, I cant think of one single newbie agent that made it past 6 months working from home.
And thats on top of a 90+% fail rate with agents who are new to the biz.


But as I said before, if you are this dead set against it, then this probably is not the business for you to be in.
Most jobs make you be there all day, all the time.
This one is asking you to be there for just a small amount of time.... after that you can do whatever you want as long as you produce. If you cant accept that for a good thing then I dont know what else to say.

 

[VolAgent]

When I was at NYL I saw many new agents come in and try to work from home (they where required to be at mandatory training sessions in person).
To be honest, I cant think of one single newbie agent that made it past 6 months working from home.
And thats on top of a 90+% fail rate with agents who are new to the biz.

I agree with this completely. The first company I was with, I spent some of my time working from the office and some working from home. Now, if I am not running appointments, networking, B2B, etc. I am at the office. I believe it has benefited me greatly. There are plenty of people that can successfully work from home, but most can't.

If you see the need to be with a company and get a training subsidy, you are not the kind of person that should be working from home.