Your Job Is At Risk Of Elimination (Medicare-For-All)......

May 31, 2019

  1. goillini52
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    goillini52 KeepAmericaGreat...Eat Bacon & BUILD THAT WALL!!!

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    Vic, Travis has some good posts, but when it comes to politics... not so much. Your wasting your breath. If you think differently than him......you're wrong. Capiche? :biggrin:
     
  2. Travis Price
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    Travis Price Guru

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    First off, thank you for the compliment.

    Concerning politics, I think that's a little unfair. I don't think people are wrong because they think differently than me, at all. I like being challenged in my beliefs. While I'll challenge back, I'm open to being persuaded.

    For example, if you told me that VP Pence was associated with a child sex ring, I'd tell you bs... You have to prove this because it would be so outside the realm of what we know about the VP that it would not be reasonable to believe. Now, if you show me a video or audio where the VP is talking about selling children to the highest bidder, I guess he's in a child sex ring.

    (This is an extreme example, but to be completely honest there are some pretty extreme things said about Obama and Trump that I don't believe because there's no evidence to support it.)

    I truly believe that differing ideas is a good thing. Most of the time, it's information that's presented factually inaccurate that tends to be an issue, for me, and that's where you kind of lose me.

    In this case, Vic has an opinion about the ACA. That's not a problem for me. His interpretation of Dr. Emanuel's academic paper isn't accurate. That is a problem for me.

    I did more digging around because as I said, I'm open to being wrong. Candidate Obama did say something about his grandmother getting a hip replacement when she was diagnosed with terminal cancer.

    This was his direct statement:

    I would have paid out of pocket for that hip replacement just because she’s my grandmother.” Obama said “you just get into some very difficult moral issues” when considering whether “to give my grandmother, or everybody else’s aging grandparents or parents, a hip replacement when they’re terminally ill. “That’s where I think you just get into some very difficult moral issues,” he said in the April 14 interview. “The chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health- care bill out here.”

    The interpretation that is being presented, as I understand it, is "Paying for old people is a waste of money. We should spend that money on young people."

    That's not what's being said. He actually states he would pay for it because it's his grandmother. However, he does pose a question if it's wasteful for someone that's about to die to go through a hip replacement or unnecessary treatment.

    I mean, hip replacements take 3-6 weeks to recover to light duty. His grandmother is going to die in a couple of months. Was spending 40k (the average cost of a hip replacement) wasteful spending?

    As for the "take a pill" point (and again, not a dig):

    The lady was 100 years old. Her doctor said there's not much she can do without a pacemaker and refused to do the pacemaker. She went to a second surgery who decided to do the pacemaker.

    The daughter's question is, "Do we take the spirit of the patient into consideration when making a medical decision?"

    So, this is where I go off a bit about doctors. Some doctors will refuse procedures because they are riskier and have a higher likelihood of complications. Surgeons, specifically, are hyper-vigilant about their morbidity and post-op complication rates because they have a career and financial incentive to be that way.

    Then President Obama stated that people have to make determinations on their own end of life care, primarily living wills. He addresses that medical guidelines should be made based on objective evidence. There are some other bits about family responsibility..

    Then we get to the real topic:

    "What we can do is make sure that some of the waste in the system that isn't making anybody's mom better that is loading up on additional tests or drugs that the medical evidence shows doesn't improve the care that doctors and patients can know that maybe this isn't going to help. Maybe you're better off with not having the surgery and taking the pain medication instead."

    He's not telling mom to take a pill instead of getting a pacemaker.

    What's being said is that procedures sometimes don't improve care or quality of life. Instead of putting someone through those procedures and wasting money, managing pain might be a better quality of life situation.

    A good example is a terminal illness. Unless there's a DNR, hospitals are required to resuscitate by any means necessary, including putting someone on a vent; even when they're brain dead.

    They are dead, but a machine is keeping the body pumping oxygen.

    This is really long, and I'm sorry. I just think there's an assignment that it's an "I'm right, you're wrong" situation. It's not that.

    If I present an argument that is based on factually inaccurate information, I lose credibility in my stance. For me, it's not about Obama/Trump/Democrat/Republican/Liberal/Conservative. It's about the consistency of your argument against the evidence you present to support it.

    This is the whole portion of the interview, unedited to determine what was the question, and what was the answer given.

     
  3. goillini52
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    goillini52 KeepAmericaGreat...Eat Bacon & BUILD THAT WALL!!!

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    I'm not going to spend much time on this and not going back and forth.

    I told you your comment saying that Fox News was more biased than the other Cable News Networks(CNN/MSNBC)was a load of crap. The other networks are 99% anti Trump/Republican/Concervative.

    Fox has several hosts that don't like Trump(Sheppard Smith, Juan Williams) and easily a dozen or more regular Lib/Dem contributors that don't like him. Also, Chris Wallace and Bret Baier are very fair and unbiased.

    If you don't see something live, you can't believe what the Left Wing Media says. I watched Trump live when he called MS-13 gang members "animals"(and they are). Immediately after he finished speaking, CNN/MSNBC were saying that Trump hates all immigrants. Not just illegal immigrants, ALL IMMIGRANTS. Hell, he's married to an immigrant. He never said that...it was a blatant lie.

    It makes me sick how the media and the Dems can make lies up and state them as fact, without any recourse. :mad:
     
  4. Travis Price
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    Travis Price Guru

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    I don't think I said more biased. I said they were as biased. I also said that polls find that Fox News viewers are less informed despite watching multiple news sources.

    That being said, there was another commenter that said that Fox was the most corrupt blah, blah, blah... I think that's where there's the misunderstanding.

    That, however, did not come from me.

    I equated this to the idea that people will dismiss points of view that do not mesh with their personal beliefs, despite evidence of the contrary.

    I agree Shep Smith and Chris Wallace are definitely highly credible.

    The point, really, (and I think I said this as well) is that individual journalists have more credibility than 24 hour news networks and that the news networks are biased because they are more concerned with ratings and ad revenue than just reporting and not " political pundits"

    To be fair, I don't know everyone you listed by name. However, I will say that I believe for every Shep Smith and Chris Wallace there's two Tucker Carson's and Rachel Maddow's.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
  5. somarco
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    somarco GA Medicare Expert

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    FWIW a similar argument was floated before and after Obamacare became law.

    It didn't happen?

    Group insurance, while impacted by Obamacare, was not eliminated. Premiums and OOP increased because of Obamacare but not as much as the U65 individual market was affected.

    I did say that Obamacare would . . .
    • result in fewer carriers
    • cause higher premiums, smaller networks, higher OOP
    • PUT THE GOVT IN DIRECT COMPETITION WITH AGENTS
    • the "Exchange" (later called the Marketplace) employed hourly workers who did not, and still don't, understand health insurance
    • so-called "navigators" would guide you through the insurance process in an unbiased manner
    • ALL options would be on the table, not just a few pitched by insurance agents
    • Obamacare would reduce agent commissions to zero, or something close to zero . . . and other agents laughed. Carriers NEED agents they said.
    • buyers would be more confused than ever
    Every one of these things came true and a lot more.

    My argument against Obamacare was not self preservation. I have changed directions many times over the years. Obamacare meant another change (but without the hope). My concern about Obamacare was how BUYERS would be priced out of the market.

    The folks pushing M4A and saying it will all be sunshine and roses. They are in denial about the downside as much as many of those same folks were wrong about Obamacare.

    If Obamacare is so great, why do only 11 million people have Marketplace plans? Why not the 40 - 50 million that were predicted? And what about the folks enrolled under Medicaid expansion?

    There are currently about 14M more enrolled in Medicaid vs prior to 2014.
    Total Monthly Medicaid and CHIP Enrollment

    All this turmoil, taxpayer cost, higher premiums, higher OOP for what?

    M4A, if it happens (and I don't believe it will), will not replace group insurance. Will not replace or expand Medicare but it will expand Medicaid. Will not result in greater access to health care. Will not save money.
     
    somarco, Jun 7, 2019
    #85
  6. PA Bill
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    PA Bill Guru

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    Socialized medicine? You mean Medicare, right?:err:
     
    PA Bill, Jun 7, 2019
    #86
  7. goillini52
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    goillini52 KeepAmericaGreat...Eat Bacon & BUILD THAT WALL!!!

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    For O'bama's "legacy". When Trump was talking about repealing O'bamacare, Barry was going around complaining that Trump was trying to undo his "legacy". The Kenyan just wanted something with his name on it....for his "legacy". :mad:
     
  8. rousemark
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    rousemark Still Here!

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    Medicare may be considered "Socialized Insurance" but it is far from Socialized Medicine... That is just like the statement people are going with healthcare is a misnomer. The healthcare debate has never been about providing healthcare, it is a debate about who will provide insurance...
     
  9. Travis Price
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    Travis Price Guru

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    I would argue to wait and see.

    I think we will see some form of national health insurance.

    I agreew Bob that the current bill doesn't really stand a chance. Once it heads into committee, it'll start getting reworked.

    Even countries that have a national health insurance system have space for private insurance. I think we'll see that here too.

    As I've stated, I'd love a catastrophic HDPD with HSA. Make the HPDP deductible something like $5000. Private insurance can come in and offer gap coverage for routine, Rx..

    Another option would be to deregulate PCP care concerning medical records. Direct Primary Care is a really amazing solution for non-emergency treatment.

    I think there's a balanced solution that works, but Washington is so messed up that it won't be easy.
     
  10. Delta75
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    Delta75 New Member

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    I remember before ACA was passed, this was primarily a IFP medical agent board with commissions at 20% of premium. Post ACA, not even close. That was a huge lesson for me as I lost over 70% of my income at the time. I went from a six figure income to loading trucks for a package delivery service at nights to pay the bills and worked all day to rebuild. Here was what I learned:

    1. Nothing is owed to you, it can all be taken away tomorrow. I now bank away over 50% of my income. Before it was always grow to the next stage and keep stretching the dollars, I was building a business after all. Now, I am still building a business but I bank away $X per year even if it means growing a little slower. No way I am going to get booted without something to show for it. Businesses and industries change all the time, but there is always another opportunity if you can sell/market.

    2. At least two streams of income at all time. It could be two products, two markets, or one product/market and a side business like rental property. Either way, at least two streams of income. Ideally, you could cut and live on just one if you had to do so.

    3. It’s easy to get lazy when you get comfortable. It is incredibly hard to ramp up again when you are out of the good prospecting habits that got you there in the first place. It’s best to always keep your edge and keep pushing.

    4. Don’t keep debt around or at least keep it manageable. Your ability to rebrand yourself takes time. Other than a mortgage that we can easily afford, we keep no other debt. Pay cash for vehicles, no credit cards, no student loans, etc. We also keep more money liquid than typically recommended. Not only is it a cushion, but it’s a great confidence builder when you are in front of clients.

    I’m proud to say I now have two income streams with each over six figures since I had to rebuild. I am comfortable, love where I live, and banking away money. But, I know it could all crash tomorrow. So I keep up the pace and keep building and bringing new clients even when it hurts so I never get too soft again. Having to work nights to rebuild was the most humbling experience in my career.
     
    Delta75, Jun 9, 2019
    #90
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