Cease FE face to face selling

[Todd King]

Do you know they aren't doing it. People do not push for the right to do something they have no intention of doing.

If their agenda calls for it they certainly would.

 

[shonceman]

Sorry, don't believe hearsay on this. If this has actually been going on for years it would be public knowledge by now.

When you can actually show a case where they did it, then let's talk.

It is public knowledge. But mainstream media isn't likely to report it because of their normal bias. Here's a 2013 article on the topic. It's from a pro life organization, so the article is necessarily coming from that viewpoint. But it would be foolish to ignore the facts they present:
Infanticide in America: How Many Infants Die After Birth in Abortion Clinics?
So, you haven't heard it before. Now you have.

 

[Todd King]

A Scientific View of When Life Begins | Charlotte Lozier Institute

One little problem about an article like this. Most of the time, when someone is talking about abortions they are coming from their stance on religion. If one is religious, believes in the hereafter, then they believe is a "soul" or something of that sort. Since this time on earth is just a blip compared to something everlasting, we could come to the conclusion that the spirit or soul is more important that the body itself.

Most religious folks usually do not support abortions, while non-religious folks are usually the ones to support abortion. So, the bottom line is that we really don't care if "life" actually begins at conception or not. It's more about the spirit/soul.

So, until we can all come to the same conclusion about religion (and that will NEVER happen), this argument will remain active.

 

[rousemark]

One little problem about an article like this. Most of the time, when someone is talking about abortions they are coming from their stance on religion. If one is religious, believes in the hereafter, then they believe is a "soul" or something of that sort. Since this time on earth is just a blip compared to something everlasting, we could come to the conclusion that the spirit or soul is more important that the body itself.

Most religious folks usually do not support abortions, while non-religious folks are usually the ones to support abortion. So, the bottom line is that we really don't care if "life" actually begins at conception or not. It's more about the spirit/soul.

So, until we can all come to the same conclusion about religion (and that will NEVER happen), this argument will remain active.

What one believes as to religion does not change the actions that are taking place.. It only affects whether they think those auctions are acceptable or not. If a person says they have witnessed a late term abortion, their being pro life does not make the report false..

 

[Todd King]

It is public knowledge. But mainstream media isn't likely to report it because of their normal bias. Here's a 2013 article on the topic. It's from a pro life organization, so the article is necessarily coming from that viewpoint. But it would be foolish to ignore the facts they present:
Infanticide in America: How Many Infants Die After Birth in Abortion Clinics?
So, you haven't heard it before. Now you have.

Okay, let me be a little clearer. While these thing (in the article) do go on and have gone on behind the scenes, we were talking about politicians passing laws making it "legal". I'm asking for someone to show me a case where a baby was aborted after birth for convenience. That's where this conversation started about abortions. That's what I've been talking about. I would like to stay in that lane as well.

 

[Todd King]

What one believes as to religion does not change the actions that are taking place.. It only affects whether they think those auctions are acceptable or not. If a person says they have witnessed a late term abortion, their being pro life does not make the report false..

What? You misunderstand me. I'm saying that the belief of whether or not abortions are acceptable or not depends almost entirely about your religious beliefs. So therefore, it really doesn't matter what science comes up with in their "opinion" or "fact".

Let's take you for instance. We all know that you are very religious. There is no way you would ever change your mind on abortion unless you completely changed your religious beliefs. While some of your belief might be supported or challenged by science, ultimately it does not depend on science. Right?

 

[shonceman]

One little problem about an article like this. Most of the time, when someone is talking about abortions they are coming from their stance on religion. If one is religious, believes in the hereafter, then they believe is a "soul" or something of that sort. Since this time on earth is just a blip compared to something everlasting, we could come to the conclusion that the spirit or soul is more important that the body itself.

Most religious folks usually do not support abortions, while non-religious folks are usually the ones to support abortion. So, the bottom line is that we really don't care if "life" actually begins at conception or not. It's more about the spirit/soul.

So, until we can all come to the same conclusion about religion (and that will NEVER happen), this argument will remain active.

The reason I posted it was to counter the "it doesn't happen" argument you were making. You said to show you a case where this actually happened. The article cites several of the more egregious examples, along with a deep dive into some CDC stats. If you're ok with that going on, then so be it. But I see that you've stopped insisting it doesn't happen.

You're right that most pro life advocates are there because of their religious beliefs. Yet, there are many atheists in our crowd, too, who come at it from a completely scientific position regarding when human life begins. One of the most famous was Dr. Bernard Nathanson, an abortion provider and abortion rights activist who did a complete about face after doing his first ultrasounds of early pregnancy. Seeing those convinced him that he was looking at a living human being, not just a mass of cells. He did eventually convert, but when I first heard him speak out against abortion he was still an atheist, and continued to be for at least another decade.

You're absolutely right, though, that this debate will likely never end. We've gotten beyond consensus in our modern culture, so the best I can do is try to change minds and hearts one at a time (and also do everything in my power to make sure that people like your Governor Northam find themselves on the wrong side of that debate!).

 

[Todd King]

No, I haven't stop saying it. I see nothing that anyone has shown me where it has happened for convenience since those bills/laws, or whatever they are were passed. If I was not clear before on what I was saying, "wasn't happening", now it should be clear.

 

[JONATHAN B SPARKS]

I bet Kermit Gosnell is none too happy. He was convinced he was doing the right thing simply because it was the right thing. His victims would have voiced an opposing viewpoint.

 

[shonceman]

No, I haven't stop saying it. I see nothing that anyone has shown me where it has happened for convenience since those bills/laws, or whatever they are were passed. If I was not clear before on what I was saying, "wasn't happening", now it should be clear.

You didn't start out with "for convenience". You started out with simply saying "it doesn't happen."

But are they actually doing it? I don't think so and I don't think it will happen.

Then you challenged us to show you a case where it had happened. I did. That's when you switched up to "happened for convenience".

So, I've had my say and given you facts, which are indisputable. So we're just left with our opinions about the facts. If you're good with things as they are, so be it. I'm not. But I am fine with us having a friendly disagreement.