Colorado Bankers (CB Life)...

[DHK]

My annuity was not an IRA. And, if the advisors at Citizens Bank were truly doing their due-diligence for their many customers with millions of $$$$ invested through them, they should have seen this coming and told us all to "pull out" before CBL went into receivership.

Based on... this? Look at the rating history and press releases on Colorado Banker's life. The only thing that was negative through 2018 was the B++ ratings in that they aren't rated anything with an 'A'. That alone wouldn't mean that customers wouldn't receive benefits, only that they have a bit more risk than an 'A' rated carrier.

https://ratings.ambest.com/CompanyProfile.aspx?amb=8502&AltNum=5018502

 

[Stephen Round]

Based on... this? Look at the rating history and press releases on Colorado Banker's life. The only thing that was negative through 2018 was the B++ ratings in that they aren't rated anything with an 'A'. That alone wouldn't mean that customers wouldn't receive benefits, only that they have a bit more risk than an 'A' rated carrier.

https://ratings.ambest.com/CompanyProfile.aspx?amb=8502&AltNum=5018502

We were told in 2017 that Citizens would never recommend this investment unless the company had the highest ratings - which was not true.

My understanding is that a B++ rating is not great.

 

[DHK]

We were told in 2017 that Citizens would never recommend this investment unless the company had the highest ratings - which was not true.

My understanding is that a B++ rating is not great.

Agreed... but B++ isn't a sign that the company would actually go into receivership.

"The highest ratings"... what a promise to make.

I don't make that promise, but I won't use a company with a rating below an A-. The ratings must have an A in them for me to use them.

 

[SamIam]

Up until, I believe 10 years ago, I used to sell a ton of their CI with every health plan I sold. I thought after that someone bought them out.

 

[David Nyman]

Isn't B++ investment grade? Plus the state guarantee associations said it was covered. Nobody has ever lost money when buying a guaranteed annuity is what I was told. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm losing 30 K per year. Insurance companies want to give the assurance the this is a safe investment but it is backed by false promises. The state insurance guarantee associations are so far worthless and the state insurance department allowed insurance companies fraudulently deny claims without any repercussions..

 

[DHK]

Isn't B++ investment grade?

You're thinking about bonds.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/...ng symbols, to signify investment grade bonds.

This is Guide to Best's Financial Strength Ratings:

https://www.ambest.com/ratings/guid...261.638464381.1679924086-895199972.1679924086

 

[scagnt83]

Isn't B++ investment grade? Plus the state guarantee associations said it was covered. .

This is a very confusing topic for consumers (and agents). The lack of transparency from your agent obviously made it worse.

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Only a BBB rating from S&P or Fitch is considered an investment grade Bond.

Any version of a B rating from Moodys is not investment grade.

And that term is specific to the bond world, you probably know that, I do get the analogy and why you make the comparison.

AMBest uses a scale that is not comparable to the other agencies, therefore a B++ is not equal to an investment grade rating of BBB from S&P or Fitch.

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The B++ from AM Best makes it more complicated to compare the way you are trying.

1. AMBest only rates insurers. Not bonds. Their scale is not comparable to the others who do rate bonds.

2. B++ with AMBest is apx equal to a B or BB with S&P.

Here is a link showing financial ratings from 2017.
Look at the carriers with B++ ratings from AMBest.
Then look at what other agencies rate those carriers. You will see the difference.


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CB Life also had a rating of "C" from Weiss at that time.

Defined as "Fair", "fair financial security, is currently stable, and will likely remain relatively healthy as long as the economic environment remains relatively stable. In the event of a severe recession or major financial crisis, however, we feel this company may encounter difficulties in maintaining its financial stability."

That definition and rating is far from investment grade. Weiss didnt even have it completely right, it should have been a D. But its hard to detect fraud without a full audit. Ratings agencies only know what the carrier discloses with them. And if the books are cooked, its hard to see that at first.

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Its not your fault that you did not know any of this. Hell, many agents do not realize AMBest is a lesser rating vs. the others. And ive heard agents use the "investment grade" analogy before regarding B++ ratings from AMBest.

But many low rated carriers ONLY have a rating with AMBest..... they dont get the others to rate them...... there is a reason for that!

 

[scagnt83]

Nobody has ever lost money when buying a guaranteed annuity is what I was told. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm losing 30 K per year. Insurance companies want to give the assurance the this is a safe investment but it is backed by false promises. The state insurance guarantee associations are so far worthless and the state insurance department allowed insurance companies fraudulently deny claims without any repercussions..

I get why you are upset. You were defrauded on multiple levels.

People who put over the SGA limit have indeed lost money in an annuity in the past.... with low rated carriers.

The SGA process is certainly not quick. But its usually not like this.

This is a unique situation because of the fraud and embezzlement that was committed. I agree that the NCDOI and AG have completely blundered this whole mess. But this is not the normal situation the SGA was set up to handle. This is a Bernie Madoff like moment, just within an insurance carrier.


Nobody has ever lost money, or gone through the SGA process, in an guaranteed annuity from a AA or AAA rated insurer. That is a fact.

 

[rats0001]

NCDOI just doesn't care about the policyholders.

 

[scagnt83]

NCDOI just doesn't care about the policyholders.

As someone familiar with NC politics and funding of government regulatory agencies... well.... you get what you pay for.

They wanted deregulation because regulations are evil and are the enemy of the "free market". Thats what those who control the NC legislature said. Here is the result of deregulation in financial markets... or just refusing to properly fund existing regulatory agencies.