Mass Strikes Again

[GreenSky]

but I don't want to get into macro-economic theory here with a bunch of guys who never got past the 10th grade.Al

Once again, you can't make a point without resorting to abuse. Sticks and stones, etc.

Rick

 

[moonlightandmargaritas]

The only entity with enough power, heft, and clout to control costs of healthcare is the Federal government.

We should take great comfort in the ability of the Federal government to control costs due to their strong track record of doing so with myriad programs in the past.

Was Obama exercising this "Federal government clout" when he made the closed door, back-room deal with Big Pharma? (not to mention his "pledge" of tranparency)..."it will all be televised on C-Span".

Brutal.

 

[Full Throttle]

Government is NOT a private company. The government can print money and has a built-in market for its debt... but I don't want to get into macro-economic theory here with a bunch of guys who never got past the 10th grade.

Here's a simple economic rule: in the long run, you can not spend more than your bring in. Good thing the schools teach this at the elementary school ages.

SS and Mcare are totally sustainable if we end both wars, cut the military budget by 30%, close all foreign bases, end agricultural subsidies, end earmarks, and end so-called research grants (i.e. corporate welfare) and tax exemptions (like oil depletion.)

I see a lot of "if's" but that's not the reality today. Did I miss the portion of the health care bill which made these cuts to free up money to fund the bill? If this didn't happen, see above.

 

[GreenSky]

They actually teach it in junior college Econ as well... but at the risk of again being accused by Rick of being abusive, let me point out that a huge number of agents here look down on anyone who sought and attained higher education.

And that statement is because you've taken a survey? Perhaps we, including those of us who went to a 4 year college, only look down upon people making absurd statements.

My guess is that there is a higher percentage of college graduates active on this forum than there are in the general population. But like you, I'm just guessing.

Rick

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

The truth is we destroyed a system that was working for 300 million people because it didn't work for 45 million. When you boil the numbers down, it's more like 15 million who are screwed due to our current system.

The only thing we needed to do was address access to health care for those 15 million.

We will not end up with universal health care because Americans don't want it. If you think we want it, go talk to Hillary. She'll tell you all about it.

If you don't believe it - talk to Obama. He'll tell you how the public option went over with Americans.

 

[moonlightandmargaritas]

a nation-state government can OFTEN out-spend it's revenues because it can monetize the debt. As long as it can service the debt and reduce it from time to time, it can spend more than it takes in.

It's surprising that someone so "highly educated" would ignore the "cheapening of the buying power" effect this has on currency. Many would argue, correctly I believe, that this inflation is the cruelest tax of all on the poor and elderly. Aren't these the type of folks you "progressives" are trying to "protect"?

In addition, how is your concept working out results-wise in Greece and the other Socialist European economies?

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

Current system is MD is just fine. Let's have that become the national model:

- if you have group keep it
- if you can qualify for individual go that route
- if you don't have group or indie then high risk pool

Don't see what's so complicated about it.

 

[Crabcake Johnny]

I'll take either the current system or universal. I think if we take a long look at what doesn't work with systems like Canada and the UK we could implement one that actually works. That would mean directly addressing people's health if it's a controllable condition. And who wants to tackle that political hand grenade.

 

[HealthGuy]

Al: Serious question: Do you want to see a value added tax like all the other countries have for single payer? Talk about budgetary repriorities. I hear these value added taxes are massive, even if we were to cut our military budget and reprioritize as you say.

 

[moonlightandmargaritas]

I stick with my thesis that only a Federal single payor system has the ability to be sustainable...

Just like Medicare is "sustainable"? Why on earth would we make the same mistake again - and expect a different result?

History has shown us that over and over again, excessive government involvement inevitably leads to two things; higher cost and lower quality. Public schools are a perfect example - exactly how has the Federal Department of Education improved them?

Fact is that nobody shops very hard with someone else's money! In every corner of the economy, cost has been driven down and quality improved by one thing and one thing only; the free market, and competition.

Health care would be no different.