As I tell folks, I have one year's experience repeated 49 times!
Penn Mutual or other Whole Life Comp levels
- Thread starter paulallred
- Start date
Ray Navarro
New Member
- 5
A lot of respect this observation!
romeroaaron
Expert
- 40
So rude for no reason lol. Go get a juice box and a snack to cool off buddy
- 4,576
In his defense, this was 2 years ago & Covid/shutdown rage was real.
- 436
Thought I would bump this thread as well as throw in some updates I just found out.
After 20 years in the business, I just joined a producers group. The main reason for this groups existence, outside of providing some high-end study-groups and a national meeting of it's 240 member firms, is to get members that exact same payouts as the top IMO's get from their carriers. It's a large annual membership fee but the juice is worth the squeeze for me.
Anyway, I can attest that that absolute highest top compensation that Penn has built into their contract is 110% for whole life, IUL, term, and UL, which is what I am now getting. For those that over-fund every permanent contract like I do, Penn is one of the highest on "excess" at 5.5% for IUL and 6.6% for whole life. Term pays a 3% for 5 year renewal, which is a little quirk within the term market, and takes term comp to 125% over 5.
After 20 years in the business, I just joined a producers group. The main reason for this groups existence, outside of providing some high-end study-groups and a national meeting of it's 240 member firms, is to get members that exact same payouts as the top IMO's get from their carriers. It's a large annual membership fee but the juice is worth the squeeze for me.
Anyway, I can attest that that absolute highest top compensation that Penn has built into their contract is 110% for whole life, IUL, term, and UL, which is what I am now getting. For those that over-fund every permanent contract like I do, Penn is one of the highest on "excess" at 5.5% for IUL and 6.6% for whole life. Term pays a 3% for 5 year renewal, which is a little quirk within the term market, and takes term comp to 125% over 5.
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- 10,330
Rumor is that Penn is revamping the entire comp schedule later this year. It will then be comparable to a LFG/AIG/etc. and will be IMO friendly.
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- 436
Interesting.
I was just at an overnight fly-in to a firm in Detroit on Tuesday/Wednesday of this week that specializes in premium finance cases....I was there with six Penn regional directors as Penn hosted the small gathering.
In evening conversation I learned that one producers groups alone (the one I happened to join this year) did 60 million of 2022 premium with Penn. Now these regionals doing direct business with their producers may very well be part of any realignment you are referring to, however it would looks like from the numbers (vitalsigns) that Penn's premium is growing substantially with their current focus on direct distribution and producers groups.
I would not be surprised if they made some type of a move though to increase their 110 to get up closer to the 130-135 range that PAC, Nationwide, Securian, Columbus Life, Lincoln is currently at on total top line comp. That's a substantial difference and big haircut when products are close.
From putting my ear to the ground so to speak my feel is that various factors are driving a lot of large producers towards a few carriers.....Scagnt, you and I have had these conversations on the boards before.
The carriers that play the bait and switch IUL illusion games with multipliers, proprietary/manufactured index's, high targets, no "cap integrity, will continue to do a lot of business and on the surface look successful. However how much of this business will prove to be good business and how much bad business?
The professional producers seem to be gravitating towards a few companies. I have a short-list of two companies that I will do "accumulation IUL" business with at the current time. Penn Mutual and Columbus Life.
Like what happened to Target stock this week, or what has happened to Bud Light this year,
in the end "your base" will either reward or punish you from your actions/motivations/ethics. I like what I see. Capitalism is winning.
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I think VULs are starting to make more and more sense in the current economic climate. Many now have indexing options along with funds. So its a combo IUL/VUL/UL.
Carriers dont have to reserve as much for VUL, so it is able to have a lower COI than IUL.
GVULs can beat a normal GUL based on just the guaranteed premium.
- 10,330
What are your thoughts on Securian?
- 436
Solid IUL carrier and in my opinion in the top 5.
Their loan provisions aren't the most flexible and internal lifetime policy expenses are a touch high last time I reviewed.
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