Foresters is done with Voice Sig

[VolAgent]

Foresters listed "high levels of non-disclosure" as the first reason...along with mortality. Interesting info on the non-disclosure part.

Instead of raising rates, they withdrew from telesales...which I respect. I don't like it, but I respect it.

Exactly, I noticed it too. Which is why I say the mortality problems were tied to unethical behavior on the part of some agents using it.

 

[suranceman]

Exactly, I noticed it too. Which is why I say the mortality problems were tied to unethical behavior on the part of some agents using it.

When Foresters says "Non Disclosure" they are referring to rescinded claims. When a claim is rescinded, it's because of "Material Non Disclosure".

They are not referring to the disclosures you need to provide to the applicant up front.

And sorry bud but mortality is not affected by the process by any meaningful margin.

 

[VolAgent]

When Foresters says "Non Disclosure" they are referring to rescinded claims. When a claim is rescinded, it's because of "Material Non Disclosure".

They are not referring to the disclosures you need to provide to the applicant up front.

And sorry bud but mortality is not affected by the process by any meaningful margin.

So, if you have significant problems with rescinded policies, is it fair to assume that there were some you missed because they lived beyond 2 years?

As Alvin at Trinity always like to say, the worst are third year claims.

 

[WinoBlues]

When Foresters says "Non Disclosure" they are referring to rescinded claims. When a claim is rescinded, it's because of "Material Non Disclosure".

They are not referring to the disclosures you need to provide to the applicant up front.

And sorry bud but mortality is not affected by the process by any meaningful margin.

While I am sure there is a percentage of the "material non disclosures" coming from the clients. It would be interesting to see the rescinded ratios for some of the agents. I have read on here that companies do not pay <2 year old claims. That has not been my experience. In my limited experience.

 

[suranceman]

FYI, the claims thing is not something that applies to me personally.

And yes you're on the right track which is precisely the problem. If there are higher than normal claims in 2 years, that will certainly mean there are others beyond the 2 year mark which are the worst because carriers can't contest them and thus lose a ton of money.

What Foresters is saying is two fold:

1. Telesales apps are resulting in a higher number of rescinded claims compared to f2f.
2. Overall mortality (even beyond the 2 year mark) on telesales apps is higher than normal compared to f2f.
3. The above negative aspects of telesales apps put the whole product at risk, thus we are dumping the problem child.

 

[WinoBlues]

FYI, the claims thing is not something that applies to me personally.

And yes you're on the right track which is precisely the problem. If there are higher than normal claims in 2 years, that will certainly mean there are others beyond the 2 year mark which are the worst because carriers can't contest them and thus lose a ton of money.

What Foresters is saying is two fold:

1. Telesales apps are resulting in a higher number of rescinded claims compared to f2f.
2. Overall mortality (even beyond the 2 year mark) on telesales apps is higher than normal compared to f2f.
3. The above negative aspects of telesales apps put the whole product at risk, thus we are dumping the problem child.

#1 - or are claims being paid that would have been rescinded if done F2F?

 

[suranceman]

#1 - or are claims being paid that would have been rescinded if done F2F?

I, nor anyone, else will know that. It matters not though. Rescinded claims are still really expensive for a carrier and the bigger issue they are an indication of claims during the 3-6 year mark which kill the carrier.

 

[theinsuranceman]

Foresters listed "high levels of non-disclosure" as the first reason...along with mortality. Interesting info on the non-disclosure part.

Instead of raising rates, they withdrew from telesales...which I respect. I don't like it, but I respect it.

"High levels of non disclosure" is an interesting answer. I would think face 2 face agents could pull this crookiness off easier than tele-sales agents. Unless, of course, Forester's tele-sales system had some holes that needed to be plugged.

I may also be misinterpreting what "high levels of non disclosure" mean.

 

[rousemark]

Here" is a novel idea.. Have agents sell F2F, taking a paper app with a hard signature of the app and disclosure forms.. The agent is in the house and can observe if they are bed confined, have O2 in the corner, violent hand and head tremors,etc..They would alsobe able to assure it really the insured making the application. If the person dies during the contestable and evidence is turned up of a condition that any agent should have noted, then they can hold the agent's feet to the fire.. Possibly even terminate for cause and keep his renewals as a form of recovery. Gee! I wonder how that would work?

 

[Newby]

I have always assumed that applicants will lie more on a mail order application or a phone application than they will with a person face to face with them. I have no data to back that up but I always assumed it's the main reason that many companies require face to face.

Of course that goes completely out the window if the agent meeting with them is crooked and coaches them to lie. And there is never a shortage of those agents.