Foresters is done with Voice Sig

[rousemark]

Y
When you have an agent, who only places adverse business with a carrier, and only healthy business with another, it ruins the product line. Do you disagree with that?

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Not for the company that gets the healthy business...

 

[rousemark]

You may be too young to remember Kodak film co. When I was a kid they had pretty much a monopoly on cameras and film and camera supplies. They didn't evolve with the competition and kinda got left behind.

Just because a business model is profitable today doesn't guarantee it will be profitable in the future. Look at Settlers, Shenandoah, and others I don't even know of.

And companies like SL and LH appreciate the brokers. After all it's the brokers who are exploiting weaknesses in the competition's underwriting. It's the brokers that are weakening the infrastructure and finances of the competition, much like termites could do to a house. After awhile the house starts to crumble and then fall down into a heap of rubble. Settlers, Shenandoah, 5 Star, maybe Foresters on the horizon?

Below is info I copied and pasted from google:

Below is a partial list of companies that have been taken over by state insurance departments ("placed in receivership") since NOLHGA's creation in 1983. The list includes impairments (those companies that have been taken over but have not gone out of business—also known as companies in rehabilitation), which appear with an asterisk next to the name, and insolvencies (those companies that have been closed or "liquidated" by the insurance department). Policyholders or their relatives who discover old insurance policies can often find information about the issuing companies in this list. For more information about a particular company, click on the underlined company name.

This section only lists cases in which NOLHGA has participated—NOLHGA usually becomes involved when policyholders in more than three states are affected by an impairment or insolvency. If you are interested in a company that does not appear on the list, please contact your state life & health insurance guaranty association or insurance department.

To search a more comprehensive list of insolvencies, including smaller insolvencies for which at least one state life & health insurance guaranty association was triggered, use the search box below:

If you are interested in a company that does not appear on either list, please contact your state life & health insurance guaranty association or insurance department.

If you are not sure if a deceased family member or close relationship had any insurance policies, the National Association of Insurance Commissioners (NAIC) website offers a Life Insurance Policy Locator Service for help in locating life insurance policies and annuity contracts.

Click here to order the list by year.

Year Company State
2000 American Chambers Life Insurance Company OH
1994 American Educators Life Insurance Company AL
1993 American Integrity Insurance Company PA
1997 American Life Assurance Corporation AL
2016 American Medical and Life Insurance Company NY
2017 American Network Insurance Company PA
1998 American Standard Life & Accident Insurance Company OK
1997 American Western Life Insurance Company UT
1992 AMS Life Insurance Company AZ
1993 Andrew Jackson Life Insurance Company MS
2000 Bankers Commercial Life Insurance Company TX
2007 Benicorp Insurance Company IN
2010 Booker T Washington Insurance Company, Inc. AL
1998 Centennial Life Insurance Company KS
1996 Coastal States Life Insurance Company GA
1994 Confederation Life Insurance Company (CLIC) MI
1994 Consolidated National Life Insurance Company IN
1994 Consumers United Insurance Company DE
2015 CoOportunity Health IA
1992 Diamond Benefits Life Insurance Company/Life Assurance Company of Pennsylvania AZ
1994 EBL Life Insurance Company PA
1991 Executive Life Insurance Company CA
2013 Executive Life Insurance Company of New York NY
1999 Family Guaranty Life Insurance Company MS
2000 Farmers and Ranchers Life Insurance Company OK
1992 Fidelity Bankers Life Insurance Company VA
1992 Fidelity Mutual Life Insurance Company * PA
1991 First Capital Life Insurance Company * CA
1997 First National Life Insurance Company AL
1999 First National Life Insurance Company of America MS
1999 Franklin American Life Insurance Company TN
1999 Franklin Protective Life Insurance Company MS
1991 George Washington Life Insurance Company WV
2011 Golden State Mutual Life Insurance Company CA
1992 Guarantee Security Life Insurance Company FL
2010 Imerica Life and Health Insurance Company AR
1991 Inter-American Insurance Company of Illinois IL
1999 International Financial Services Life Insurance Company MO
1993 Investment Life Insurance Company of America NC
1994 Kentucky Central Life Insurance Company KY
2003 Legion Insurance Company PA
2004 Life & Health Insurance Company of America PA
2008 Lincoln Memorial Life Insurance Company TX
2004 London Pacific Life & Annuity Company NC
2013 Lumbermens Mutual Casualty Company IL
2009 Medical Savings Insurance Company IN
1991 Midwest Life Insurance Company LA
1994 Monarch Life Insurance Company * MA
1993 Mutual Benefit Life Insurance Company NJ
1991 Mutual Security Life Insurance Company IN
2000 National Affiliated Investors Life Insurance Company LA
1995 National Heritage Life Insurance Company DE
2010 National States Insurance Company MO
1993 New Jersey Life Insurance Company NJ
1994 Old Colony Life Insurance Company GA
1992 Old Faithful Life Insurance Company WY
2009 Old Standard Life Insurance Company ID
2004 Old West Annuity & Life Insurance Company * AZ
1994 Pacific Standard Life Insurance Company CA
2017 Penn Treaty Network America Insurance Company PA
2001 Reliance Insurance Company PA
2015 SeeChange Health Insurance Company CA
2012 Standard Life Insurance Company of Indiana IN
2005 States General Life Insurance Company TX
1999 Statesman National Life Insurance Company TX
1994 Summit National Life Insurance Company PA
1995 Supreme Life Insurance Company of America IL
1993 Unison International Life Insurance Company OK
2013 Universal Health Care Insurance Company, Inc. FL
2010 Universal Life Insurance Company AL
1998 Universe Life Insurance Company ID
2003 Villanova Insurance Company PA
2004 Western United Life Assurance Co. * WA

Not sure what your point is as most of those companies had nothing to do with FE.. Some were underfunded from the beginning, some like PennTreaty got caught up in the LTC bust.. The main thing they did wrong was they did not count on the persistency beginning as good as it turned out to be.. The plans the agents sent then was too good for the underlying actuarial assumptions.

 

[NSRH]

The only reason you guys try to promote your captive model is because you hate the charge backs you know you get due to independents offering your clients a better deal.

That's not going to change no matter how much you want it to.

I dont care if it changes or not. It does not affect my business at all. But it is damaging certain companies product lines, which again, I dont really care, just sharing a common sense fact.

On a different note, and I can only speak for myself personally, but very little of my chargebacks are due to replacement. My customers are a much different demographic than the serial mail respondent.

 

[WinoBlues]

I dont care if it changes or not. It does not affect my business at all. But it is damaging certain companies product lines, which again, I dont really care, just sharing a common sense fact.

On a different note, and I can only speak for myself personally, but very little of my chargebacks are due to replacement. My customers are a much different demographic than the serial mail respondent.

What is the demographic?

 

[Rob Lion]

The broker model isn't going away. It's been around for a very long time. It wouldn't be here still unless carriers were making money doing it.

The FE business isn't going to a captive model.

Furthermore, do you really think their actuaries are so naive that they don't expect to get independent agents taking advantage of niche underwriting?

Companies like SL, LH, or northstar only say captive is coming because they'd rather not deal with the competition of independent agencies. They know they have an inferior offering to the marketplace with their captive model.

I have a few friends who are actuaries they have 0 business skills other than being a human equation solver.

 

[theinsuranceman]

The only reason you guys try to promote your captive model is because you hate the charge backs you know you get due to independents offering your clients a better deal.

That's not going to change no matter how much you want it to.

If charge backs were as bad as some of the independents claim, don't you think all of these companies would have gone out of business or lowered their premiums by now?

If charge backs were that bad don't you think all the agents with all the carriers would be migrating to the cheapest carrier?

I'm not absolutely sure, but I believe the FE carriers that have had troubles the last few years were cheap premium companies with loose underwriting?

 

[Newby]

If charge backs were as bad as some of the independents claim, don't you think all of these companies would have gone out of business or lowered their premiums by now?

If charge backs were that bad don't you think all the agents with all the carriers would be migrating to the cheapest carrier?

I'm not absolutely sure, but I believe the FE carriers that have had troubles the last few years were cheap premium companies with loose underwriting?

Your assumption there seems to be more about wishful thinking.

Settlers was one of the higher priced companies and very tight on underwriting.

Shenandoah was competitive but certainly not a price buster.

London (Lincoln Heritage's former product) was priced high.

ForeThought was priced competitive but not a price buster.

5-Star's product was priced very low but their insane underwriting (no MIB, no script check, no phone interview) is what did them in.

Oxford which is one of the most popular price busters just INCREASED commissions to bring back the monthly lead credit.

Sentinal Security which is priced very low did reduce commissions on their 2nd and 3rd tier but increased them on the 1st tier which is the tier with the low prices. And their 2nd and 3rd tier still pay very high commissions.

American Generals captive agencies closed their offices all across the country last year.

I see the independent channels growing and becoming more important each year. As more and more companies enter the FE business they become more refined. Companies like Sentinal MOO, Trinity and KSKJ are very smart how they have a very competitive 1st tier product to catch all the healthy business as well as 2nd and 3rd tiers to appropriately price the less healthy business. TransAmerica, Liberty Bankers and many other companies do the same but are not as competitively priced on their 1st tier and lose out some of that business.

I'm sure you captive guys place a lot of business that sticks. Or you would not be n business. But as an independent, we get leads every day from people who bought high priced policies that are still sending in cards. And the #1 thing they are looking for is to see if they can get a lower price. The independents fill an obvious need in the market place. The price sensitive consumer. And the low income consumer that simply can't afford to pay more. And the substandard health consumers that we can often place with an immediate coverage policy where captives default to graded too quickly.

I've only been at this for 23 years now. But I've heard nah-sayers preaching their theories all of those years. "Going to run out of people to sell to." "Companies will sell direct and won't need agents anymore." "The Sky is falling"

But would have to say from my point of view that strong competition only makes the entire industry better. Better for the consumers. Better for the agents. And better for the well run companies. Plenty of business for everyone.

 

[rousemark]

Your assumption there seems to be more about wishful thinking.

Settlers was one of the higher priced companies and very tight on underwriting.

Shenandoah was competitive but certainly not a price buster.

London (Lincoln Heritage's former product) was priced high.

ForeThought was priced competitive but not a price buster.

5-Star's product was priced very low but their insane underwriting (no MIB, no script check, no phone interview) is what did them in.

Oxford which is one of the most popular price busters just INCREASED commissions to bring back the monthly lead credit.

Sentinal Security which is priced very low did reduce commissions on their 2nd and 3rd tier but increased them on the 1st tier which is the tier with the low prices. And their 2nd and 3rd tier still pay very high commissions.

American Generals captive agencies closed their offices all across the country last year.

I see the independent channels growing and becoming more important each year. As more and more companies enter the FE business they become more refined. Companies like Sentinal MOO, Trinity and KSKJ are very smart how they have a very competitive 1st tier product to catch all the healthy business as well as 2nd and 3rd tiers to appropriately price the less healthy business. TransAmerica, Liberty Bankers and many other companies do the same but are not as competitively priced on their 1st tier and lose out some of that business.

I'm sure you captive guys place a lot of business that sticks. Or you would not be n business. But as an independent, we get leads every day from people who bought high priced policies that are still sending in cards. And the #1 thing they are looking for is to see if they can get a lower price. The independents fill an obvious need in the market place. The price sensitive consumer. And the low income consumer that simply can't afford to pay more. And the substandard health consumers that we can often place with an immediate coverage policy where captives default to graded too quickly.

I've only been at this for 23 years now. But I've heard nah-sayers preaching their theories all of those years. "Going to run out of people to sell to." "Companies will sell direct and won't need agents anymore." "The Sky is falling"

But would have to say from my point of view that strong competition only makes the entire industry better. Better for the consumers. Better for the agents. And better for the well run companies. Plenty of business for everyone.

When I first started, I wondered about . "Going to run out of people to sell to." .. Failed to take in consideration that there are new births every year and that those people are progressing to different stages of life with different needs every year.. In fact, since the population has grown and there are fewer agents now than when I started, the agent has more "people to sell to." than ever before.

 

[Baseball7]

I've replaced plenty of the American Amicable Telus sales products I don't know what he's talking about they don't get replaced. Crazy how that companies indy product is decent but the others are bonk.

 

[theinsuranceman]

Your assumption there seems to be more about wishful thinking.

Settlers was one of the higher priced companies and very tight on underwriting.

Shenandoah was competitive but certainly not a price buster.

London (Lincoln Heritage's former product) was priced high.

ForeThought was priced competitive but not a price buster.

5-Star's product was priced very low but their insane underwriting (no MIB, no script check, no phone interview) is what did them in.

Oxford which is one of the most popular price busters just INCREASED commissions to bring back the monthly lead credit.

Sentinal Security which is priced very low did reduce commissions on their 2nd and 3rd tier but increased them on the 1st tier which is the tier with the low prices. And their 2nd and 3rd tier still pay very high commissions.

American Generals captive agencies closed their offices all across the country last year.

I see the independent channels growing and becoming more important each year. As more and more companies enter the FE business they become more refined. Companies like Sentinal MOO, Trinity and KSKJ are very smart how they have a very competitive 1st tier product to catch all the healthy business as well as 2nd and 3rd tiers to appropriately price the less healthy business. TransAmerica, Liberty Bankers and many other companies do the same but are not as competitively priced on their 1st tier and lose out some of that business.

I'm sure you captive guys place a lot of business that sticks. Or you would not be n business. But as an independent, we get leads every day from people who bought high priced policies that are still sending in cards. And the #1 thing they are looking for is to see if they can get a lower price. The independents fill an obvious need in the market place. The price sensitive consumer. And the low income consumer that simply can't afford to pay more. And the substandard health consumers that we can often place with an immediate coverage policy where captives default to graded too quickly.

I've only been at this for 23 years now. But I've heard nah-sayers preaching their theories all of those years. "Going to run out of people to sell to." "Companies will sell direct and won't need agents anymore." "The Sky is falling"

But would have to say from my point of view that strong competition only makes the entire industry better. Better for the consumers. Better for the agents. And better for the well run companies. Plenty of business for everyone.

You know much more than I do about all these other carriers. If premium charged for the risk is not what does these companies in then it must be their mgmt.? Or adverse selection?