Medicare Supplements: LIke A High Risk Pool?

[Chazm]

Thanks for the input Bob! With UHC I can't do electronic supplement applications, which is incredibly frustrating...You are correct, theres been like 3 or 4 mergers with Aetna biz, buy a block, close a block, and then Aetna raises rates a painful amount! Im tired of the supplement hamster wheel.

I just did an electronic app with uhc Med supp last week. Did you know they added it?

 

[LostDollar]

Would love to hear from forum members on the perspective that the Medicare supplement market (vs Medicare Advantage) is similar to a high risk pool, with the eventual problems of many many people on them who are sicker and aging and that they pricing on the existing blocks of business will eventually explode. Somehow, I dont think this opinion is far off as I see my current block of Aetna supplement business price increases becoming ridiculous. I sometimes think I regret NOT selling more MAPD earlier in my career.

From the perspective of the more sick and aging medicare beneficiaries, how do you think their overall medical costs differ between those holding Medigap and those holding Medicare Advantage plans?

 

[HealthGuy]

Chazm, thanks for the post..I didnt know they added an electronic supplement application!

 

[Poseidon]

Would love to hear from forum members on the perspective that the Medicare supplement market (vs Medicare Advantage) is similar to a high risk pool, with the eventual problems of many many people on them who are sicker and aging and that they pricing on the existing blocks of business will eventually explode. Somehow, I dont think this opinion is far off as I see my current block of Aetna supplement business price increases becoming ridiculous. I sometimes think I regret NOT selling more MAPD earlier in my career.

Would love to hear from forum members on the perspective that the Medicare supplement market (vs Medicare Advantage) is similar to a high risk pool, with the eventual problems of many many people on them who are sicker and aging and that they pricing on the existing blocks of business will eventually explode. Somehow, I dont think this opinion is far off as I see my current block of Aetna supplement business price increases becoming ridiculous. I sometimes think I regret NOT selling more MAPD earlier in my career.

How long have you been selling suppplements and have you found that you have lost a bunch to MAPD or conserve a bunch of supps that want to go the mapd route?

 

[Poseidon]

The Medigap market is a cesspool of new carriers entering the market monthly. Each one tries to have the lowest rates. At least for today . . .

All the major carrriers and many also-ran's now have subsidiaries they will move into a market once they have reached a point of stagnation with a current carrier. Retire the current carrier. Replace with new carrier. New rates 25% below old carrier.

Rinse, wash, repeat.

Only way to avoid this, at least for now, is put all your business with UHC or BX.

However come 2020 who knows what will happen?

Yes, everyone (or so it seems) is pushing MAPD. No premium. Free dental and eye exams, free weekly car wash, free cable TV. What's not to love.

MAPD is all fun and games until the party is over and your health changes. Then they find out how much all this FREE stuff really costs, and they cannot pick their own doc.

Back to Medigap.

No risk pool. Closest thing is UHC "anyone who can fog a mirror" rates or the Cigna mirror fogging rates.

I currently move 30+ clients per year which is up from fewer than 5 a few years ago. Rates used to be stable and somewhat predictable. Three years when there were only 25 or so carriers writing Medigap in my state life was easy. Now there are 60 and it seems more coming in every month.

In GA we have had Genworth, Aetna, CLI, AHL and now ACI. All affiliated with Aetna and that is just since 2010. Five carriers in 8 years is a lot.

Omaha has only had 3 in that time frame but the current one is getting whiskers. Seems they are overdue for another swap.

I have lost count of how many Cigna derivations we have had. Could be 3. Could be 4.

Folks want original Medicare and a supplement plan so they don't have to follow network rules and can see an out of state cancer specialist if they want.

My block continues to grow every year and I lose more clients to death than rate increases or getting sucked into the pitch for everything free.

Even then I don't lose that many.

Some days it is frustrating but nothing like my days writing U65 mangled care health insurance.

Do you share the same or similar thoughts as OP? What is your opinion regarding MAPD being a massive threat to Supp books of biz in the coming years?

 

[Alston]

All the major carrriers and many also-ran's now have subsidiaries they will move into a market once they have reached a point of stagnation with a current carrier. Retire the current carrier. Replace with new carrier. New rates 25% below old carrier.

Rinse, wash, repeat.

It's the same playbook they used for individual health before the ACA.

 

[somarco]

Do you share the same or similar thoughts as OP? What is your opinion regarding MAPD being a massive threat to Supp books of biz in the coming years?

It's only a threat if you have not educated your clients on the differences in OM vs MA, and kept in touch with them.

 

[somarco]

It's the same playbook they used for individual health before the ACA.

I don't recall seeing that game played at this level before and with such intensity.

UHC bought AMS, Golden Rule and maybe a few others.

TIME - Fortis - Assurant issued under their own brand and had John Alden and one other. Union Fidelity?

In Georgia, and presumably other states as well, the sister carriers competed against each other. I don't recall one being retired then replaced with a sister company.

I wrote very little individual health insurance before 2002. Almost 100% group coverage. So maybe the shell game was there and I was not aware of it.

 

[Midlevel]

I know a lot of agents who only present Med Sups and not MAPD's also. I agree if a client is paying $175-$200/month for their Med Sup and PDP and can go to a $0 premium MAPD that has a $4500 Max OOP and includes dental, eyeglass reimbursement, OTC benefits, gym membership, etc. that it makes total sense to switch to the MA plan. If they are using the extra benefits they will still come out ahead money wise even if they do max out the $4500. Plus the drug plan can't be beat with $0 premium, $0 deductible and in most cases $0 generic prescriptions.

 

[Corpuschristi]

I write both, I personally would prefer a Med Sup for the flexibility the plans offer. However the annual price increases eventually price out people. Plan F will exprience huge increases when the pool is closed and the healthy clients switch over to plan G or N.
The only alternative for these sick clients is to pay the higher premiums or get priced out and go into a MA plan.

I view my Med Supp book as inventory for my MA book.