- 11,475
"Security" concerns against hackers is usually the most cited reason.
At least it's easier to bold or italicize words in this interface than before.
At least it's easier to bold or italicize words in this interface than before.
New forum is launched
- Thread starter valdet
- Start date
- Thread starter
- Staff
- #12
- 518
We mentioned in the old forum too, the app that we were using, was a third party application developed by vBulletin.
It wasn't maintained for over 3 years and there were exploits for it. I made some code workarounds in order to protect us from bot scanning of such exploits and we made it somewhat safe, but still there were forums with over 10 million posts that were hacked from same application and many others followed.
The new forum software that we use is modern and its codebase is built around PHP Zend framework, which is considered as one of the most secure frameworks out there. It is well supported and has a way better future ahead than vBulletin stalemate had.
For the record, since Xenforo was first launched in 2010, there were still no cases of hacked websites from native Xenforo code.
Thanks.
- 10,724
I'm
If the app is a major security issue then fine. (Although it seems that building a mobile version of the site would make a lot of sense)
But the current discussion is about the desktop version.
UX aside. It is proving impossible to post with my grammarly plug-in activated from the desktop version. And the mobile-friendly version is not very mobile friendly... And I have a really nice phone and the latest version of Android. Which means that I no longer have a reliable way that is easy for me to post on this forum.
The site might be more secure now, but that does no good if you have no members posting on it.
And I should not have to deactivate what is an extremely popular browser plugin just for a single site.
I promise I'm not trying to give Val or Sam a hard time with any of these comments. Just my honest opinion and thoughts. But it just seems odd from a business perspective. Especially when it comes to losing the app... Everything is going mobile these days and it seems like the exact opposite kind of business move that a website should make. I understand security concerns, I own multiple websites myself... But taking away multiple popular features all at once seems odd. And while I appreciate the security concerns, what customers care about is the end product.
If the app is a major security issue then fine. (Although it seems that building a mobile version of the site would make a lot of sense)
But the current discussion is about the desktop version.
UX aside. It is proving impossible to post with my grammarly plug-in activated from the desktop version. And the mobile-friendly version is not very mobile friendly... And I have a really nice phone and the latest version of Android. Which means that I no longer have a reliable way that is easy for me to post on this forum.
The site might be more secure now, but that does no good if you have no members posting on it.
And I should not have to deactivate what is an extremely popular browser plugin just for a single site.
I promise I'm not trying to give Val or Sam a hard time with any of these comments. Just my honest opinion and thoughts. But it just seems odd from a business perspective. Especially when it comes to losing the app... Everything is going mobile these days and it seems like the exact opposite kind of business move that a website should make. I understand security concerns, I own multiple websites myself... But taking away multiple popular features all at once seems odd. And while I appreciate the security concerns, what customers care about is the end product.
Last edited:
- Staff
- #14
- 1,598
Thanks very much for the feedback here and in the other feedback threads, it will take some time to work through all of it through the several lenses that we need to, in order to prioritize feature requests, bug fixes and improvements.
Regarding the need to upgrade, we already held on much longer than was a reasonable decision and I am glad that the change is finally complete. There have been several great points brought up in this and other threads and I will share a few thoughts...
1. Making website changes, including major ones, is just a fact of the internet. I know that change is harder for some than for others and not all change is good, but it is the way that just about every decently trafficked website will go or has gone. Nostalgia is great, but I am very glad that the web and sites I visit don't look and work like they used to.
Craigslist is a great example of an outlier, but had we not made a number of changes over the years to impact site load time, code modifications, security, anti-spam etc... then we would look like the old snitz forum that was overrun with spam, hacked and left to rot by its owners. We can all think of the seven or eight other insurance forums that have come and gone over the years. Some were run by smart and thoughtful people and had some decent traction but just didn't change quick enough to keep up
2. The app- I wish we could get a new app very easily and getting one is still on the project pipeline, but it is just not the number one priority for us relative to what we have to execute on and how. We do know what it will cost in terms of engagement by some very important users...and it also really hurts on the discovery side, because a lot of people found the forum through the app-store.
Nevertheless, security was a major issue. We have paid a lot of money to find random people to support areas of it, not to mention Val's dedication and ingenuity but it was bought by internet brands several years ago and run into the ground, just like the vbulletin platform was, once they bought that. Almost every single forum that used that product for their app has pulled theirs.
3. Patience vs letting go- I hope that some of the people who have been around for many years will give us some chance to improve on what we have right now and make it work better for as many people as we can. I guarantee that we won't fix every problem and won't be compatible with every extension, but we will certainly do what we can to accommodate as many as we can and just because something doesn't have a fix within the first day or two, does not mean that you should give up hope on it
4. Search- Google drives more than 50% of our traffic every single day. We needed to invest in a solid mobile browsing experience if we want to have any shot at maintaining that traffic source.
5. Revenue - We have a great staff, including those that engage on the forums like Val, Brian and Justin and we are not a non-profit, I am trying to run a business that makes a profit. I still don't because I am trying to grow it, but I do have to stay very mindful of that. That includes the realities of what staff is able to spend time on.
I know that not everyone loves every advertiser that we have ever had, but I think that the forum feedback loop helps keep us pretty good about that, not to mention my own morals and perspective as an agent out there writing business. We turn away revenue on a weekly basis from companies that we choose not to do business with and who are more than happy to patronize the other insurance publishers out there.
Even with that, the insurance media landscape, especially life and health, have been decimated over the last number of years...producersweb, lifehealthpro, national underwiter, life insurance selling, senior market advisor, agent sales journal etc... are all gone. We are still here and trying our best to grow.
We can only do this because of our dedicated and loyal base of members and lurkers who create valuable content and patronize our advertisers. Those who know of and practice giving in life know that is the best way to get as well. Many of you have changed lives that you don't even know about by helping people make a living and feed their families through sharing your hard won wisdom and knowledge. Some of you have even had the pleasure of hearing that directly from people who have benefited from your wisdom.
Some of the people who have created the most valuable content have also benefited in a number of ways in their own lives...directly, from new clients, agent referrals, downline additions, learning about new techniques, better insight into commission possibilities, new marketing ideas and indirectly...from using the forum questions and discussions as a way of writing and clarifying your own thoughts, discovering new insights through sharing and other indirect benefits and providing a salve for some of the loneliness of our profession.
The forum has been win win for me and for many of you for many years. I know that we will find ways to continue that...using some of the old ways we grew comfortable with, and some new ways that we haven't even dreamed up yet.
It's been a (mostly) great ten years...here is to the next ten!
Regarding the need to upgrade, we already held on much longer than was a reasonable decision and I am glad that the change is finally complete. There have been several great points brought up in this and other threads and I will share a few thoughts...
1. Making website changes, including major ones, is just a fact of the internet. I know that change is harder for some than for others and not all change is good, but it is the way that just about every decently trafficked website will go or has gone. Nostalgia is great, but I am very glad that the web and sites I visit don't look and work like they used to.
Craigslist is a great example of an outlier, but had we not made a number of changes over the years to impact site load time, code modifications, security, anti-spam etc... then we would look like the old snitz forum that was overrun with spam, hacked and left to rot by its owners. We can all think of the seven or eight other insurance forums that have come and gone over the years. Some were run by smart and thoughtful people and had some decent traction but just didn't change quick enough to keep up
2. The app- I wish we could get a new app very easily and getting one is still on the project pipeline, but it is just not the number one priority for us relative to what we have to execute on and how. We do know what it will cost in terms of engagement by some very important users...and it also really hurts on the discovery side, because a lot of people found the forum through the app-store.
Nevertheless, security was a major issue. We have paid a lot of money to find random people to support areas of it, not to mention Val's dedication and ingenuity but it was bought by internet brands several years ago and run into the ground, just like the vbulletin platform was, once they bought that. Almost every single forum that used that product for their app has pulled theirs.
3. Patience vs letting go- I hope that some of the people who have been around for many years will give us some chance to improve on what we have right now and make it work better for as many people as we can. I guarantee that we won't fix every problem and won't be compatible with every extension, but we will certainly do what we can to accommodate as many as we can and just because something doesn't have a fix within the first day or two, does not mean that you should give up hope on it
4. Search- Google drives more than 50% of our traffic every single day. We needed to invest in a solid mobile browsing experience if we want to have any shot at maintaining that traffic source.
5. Revenue - We have a great staff, including those that engage on the forums like Val, Brian and Justin and we are not a non-profit, I am trying to run a business that makes a profit. I still don't because I am trying to grow it, but I do have to stay very mindful of that. That includes the realities of what staff is able to spend time on.
I know that not everyone loves every advertiser that we have ever had, but I think that the forum feedback loop helps keep us pretty good about that, not to mention my own morals and perspective as an agent out there writing business. We turn away revenue on a weekly basis from companies that we choose not to do business with and who are more than happy to patronize the other insurance publishers out there.
Even with that, the insurance media landscape, especially life and health, have been decimated over the last number of years...producersweb, lifehealthpro, national underwiter, life insurance selling, senior market advisor, agent sales journal etc... are all gone. We are still here and trying our best to grow.
We can only do this because of our dedicated and loyal base of members and lurkers who create valuable content and patronize our advertisers. Those who know of and practice giving in life know that is the best way to get as well. Many of you have changed lives that you don't even know about by helping people make a living and feed their families through sharing your hard won wisdom and knowledge. Some of you have even had the pleasure of hearing that directly from people who have benefited from your wisdom.
Some of the people who have created the most valuable content have also benefited in a number of ways in their own lives...directly, from new clients, agent referrals, downline additions, learning about new techniques, better insight into commission possibilities, new marketing ideas and indirectly...from using the forum questions and discussions as a way of writing and clarifying your own thoughts, discovering new insights through sharing and other indirect benefits and providing a salve for some of the loneliness of our profession.
The forum has been win win for me and for many of you for many years. I know that we will find ways to continue that...using some of the old ways we grew comfortable with, and some new ways that we haven't even dreamed up yet.
It's been a (mostly) great ten years...here is to the next ten!
- 10,724
- 1,819
removed all the likes I had. DEV'S FIX THIS.
Why did they update this place when it has been deader than dead?
Why did they update this place when it has been deader than dead?
- 4,289
Research...painstaking research! LOL!!!
- 26,009
Not that painstaking, If it was, I may have been doing it wrong.
BADTROUT
Guru
Change is hard, change sucks... but, soon we will never know there was a used to be, the older users will die off and the millennials don't love forums anyway. To all of us in the middle... We ain't going back so get used to it.
- 8,707
The forum is no longer convenient to view during my free time... Sam I wish you and the forum the best.
