Poor People Matter

[shonceman]

If one needs to demand equality, it's apparent they weren't granted it by the Constitution.

While equality may not have been clear in the original Constitution, it was certainly made clear by the "Reconstruction Amendments" to it. (13th, 14th, & 15th Amendments). Unfortunately, it still had to be demanded, since many people apparently never got the message.
Reconstruction Amendments - Wikipedia

 

[Josh]

While equality may not have been clear in the original Constitution, it was certainly made clear by the "Reconstruction Amendments" to it. (13th, 14th, & 15th Amendments). Unfortunately, it still had to be demanded, since many people apparently never got the message.
Reconstruction Amendments - Wikipedia

But let's be honest, it was just men. Women didn't get the right to vote until when again was that? When could they get credit without their husbands permission? Some of this stuff is within the lifetimes of the older agents on here. Women of all races have been equally treated like shit in the U.S. for a long time. Let's also not forget the Mormon Extermination act in Missouri. Had nothing to do with race, just religion. When I hear people talk about oppression over the last 400 years it really makes me wonder how familiar they are with even the last 40 years.

 

[rousemark]

While equality may not have been clear in the original Constitution, it was certainly made clear by the "Reconstruction Amendments" to it. (13th, 14th, & 15th Amendments). Unfortunately, it still had to be demanded, since many people apparently never got the message.
Reconstruction Amendments - Wikipedia

But the founders had nothing to do with those amendments so they cannot not be used as a measure of the founders thinking.

 

[rousemark]

But let's be honest, it was just men. Women didn't get the right to vote until when again was that? When could they get credit without their husbands permission? Some of this stuff is within the lifetimes of the older agents on here. Women of all races have been equally treated like shit in the U.S. for a long time. Let's also not forget the Mormon Extermination act in Missouri. Had nothing to do with race, just religion. When I hear people talk about oppression over the last 400 years it really makes me wonder how familiar they are with even the last 40 years.

When I started National Life and Accident had just "retired" their Black Rate Book for life insurance. They still had Sick and Accident plans that were not to be sold to white folks.

 

[Life Hawk]

Women of all races have been equally treated like shit in the U.S. for a long time.

I wonder about that statement... in the past it seems to me men where a bit more chivalrous and responsible to the home and the women.

I could pull divorce rates, the number of out of wedlock children, abandoned families, the use of prescription medications for ptsd and a whole host of other facts that would point you to the conclusion that women where treated with much more honor and respect in days gone by men then they are today. Not to mention the evil trafficking that is inflicted upon countless thousands of females in our country.

I believe your statement is a broad brush that lacks historical fact.

 

[rousemark]

I wonder about that statement... in the past it seems to me men where a bit more chivalrous and responsible to the home and the women.

I could pull divorce rates, the number of out of wedlock children, abandoned families, the use of prescription medications for ptsd and a whole host of other facts that would point you to the conclusion that women where treated with much more honor and respect in days gone by men then they are today. Not to mention the evil trafficking that is inflicted upon countless thousands of females in our country.

I believe your statement is a broad brush that lacks historical fact.

The divorce rates were lower in the past for many reasons. One, there was a societal stigma to being divorced. Two, many wives remained in terrible marriages because they felt they had no other option. Jobs were not plentiful for divorced women as they are today. Three, there were thr religious prohibitions against divorce, particularly among Catholics.

 

[Life Hawk]

The divorce rates were lower in the past for many reasons. One, there was a societal stigma to being divorced. Two, many wives remained in terrible marriages because they felt they had no other option. Jobs were not plentiful for divorced women as they are today. Three, there were thr religious prohibitions against divorce, particularly among Catholics.

What about #4 - men where more responsible to the home, they cared for their wives and children, and many men of faith did what was right not because of stigma, but because they placed faith in God in difficult times and believed in sanctity of marriage.

On second thought... I place that as number one.

Your too quick to fall into the trap of history rewritten and reorganized.

Interesting study... look at all the history text books that have fallen into disapproval with our school system over the years. Not because they provided factual accounts, but because they failed to tout a narrative that has been on going since the the time of Dewy.

We have far educated our selves in to oblivion... we lost our way and in the process we have irreparably damaged the way our children see the world.

I believe one individual who was a mentor to a past president put this way, "America's chickens have come home to roost." (and they aren't the leg laying kind.)

 

[shonceman]

But let's be honest, it was just men. Women didn't get the right to vote until when again was that? When could they get credit without their husbands permission? Some of this stuff is within the lifetimes of the older agents on here. Women of all races have been equally treated like shit in the U.S. for a long time. Let's also not forget the Mormon Extermination act in Missouri. Had nothing to do with race, just religion. When I hear people talk about oppression over the last 400 years it really makes me wonder how familiar they are with even the last 40 years.

That's a fair point. Those amendments were only about men, although there were some legislators who tried, unsuccessfully, to insert voting rights for women into those amendments.

Being one of the older agents, I have to take some umbrage at the idea that we were around before women could vote! Even @rousemark ain't that old!

I do, however, remember the Civil Rights movement. I was only 10 when MLK Jr was assassinated, but I had been paying attention to the news since I was 6 (even though I couldn't fully understand it all). By the time I was 15 I began to speak up on issues that mattered to me, and was called a "n****r lover" by some classmates because of my views on equality.

 

[shonceman]

But the founders had nothing to do with those amendments so they cannot not be used as a measure of the founders thinking.

I posted that as a response to whether equality was granted by the Constitution. It wasn't explicitly until those amendments. But that doesn't mean that all of the founders were in favor of slavery. Many from the Northern states were in favor of abolishing slavery in the original Constitution. For example, "In denouncing a clause that preserved the slave trade until 1808, Constitutional Convention delegate Luther Martin chastised the institution as "inconsistent with the principles of the Revolution, and dishonorable to the American character." (Slavery and the Constitution | National Review)
Unfortunately, louder voices prevailed at that time. But a major historical point that's often missed is that while chattel slavery had existed under the British for nearly 170 years at that point, and worldwide for thousands of years, it was completely abolished in this country within only 80 years, a single lifetime, of the formation of our Constitution!

 

[Life Hawk]

Being one of the older agents, I have to take some umbrage at the idea that we were around before women could vote! Even @rousemark ain't that old!

You both are such old farts...

But I love you both no matter what kinda pain in the butt you think I am...